Mark Willis: Finding Hope and Healing in Christ

Mark and Katy Willis.png

Mark Willis struggled through anxiety, depression, job loss and a pornography addiction before finding hope and healing in Jesus Christ.

I had the opportunity to interview Mark’s wife Katy about her side of the story on my podcast earlier this year. You can listen to her episode here.

In this episode we talk about:

  • The importance of reaching out for help if you are suicidal

  • How God often answers our prayer through others

  • The importance of self-compassion

  • Pride and humility

  • Emotions are messages for myself and I can “NAME” them to give better context for what my emotions are looking to teach me: Notice, Acknowledge, Make Space, Expand Awareness

  • The importance of self-care and connecting with Christ to fill your own bucket daily

  • Christ can heal all broken people (and we are all broken)

Mark also shares many resources to help those touched by an addiction to pornography.

Additional Links that might interest you from Mark and Katy’s Journey

Mark’s Father's Day 2020 Facebook post reflecting on returning to full fellowship in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2831681246940902&id=100002971633345  

 

Mark’s reflections from participating in a scriptural message on pride and chastity

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2448793891896308&id=100002971633345

 

Katy and Mark are "die-hard" date nighters, so just for fun, they put together a music video called "Two Becoming One"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kLYUNXjPUI  

 

You may have already been introduced to Katy's interview with Leading Saint's - Liberating Saints Virtual Summit

https://leadingsaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Offering-Spiritual-Healing-to-the-Betrayed-transcript.pdf  

 

Katy's gets personal and real about what betrayal trauma felt like for her in this targeted audience interview with Rise Up Restored

https://riseuprestored.com/podcast/ep-12-katys-story?fbclid=IwAR0SGl-aOjjeQ_ESlOT7LvnllAdrb2KbhB6iRiMwebdeMft5ar8npvT1oyc 

To connect with Mark: As one of my bottom lines for recovery, Mark has no personal social media account, however, there are other ways of connecting with him through his wife Katy.

You can read the full transcript of this episode here:

Mark  0:01 

We're in a culture where, if you're not strong enough, smart enough, or attractive enough, then you have got this problem that you've got to take care of. Don't let anybody see you while you're going through that process. We don't have a culture where people share on their social media accounts, "Last night I was engaged in pornography for two hours, and I need help." Aren't we all struggling with something that Jesus Christ can help fill that hole?

 

Tamara Anderson  0:33 

Welcome to Stories of Hope in Hard Times, the show that explores how people endure and even thrive in difficult times, all with God's help. I'm your host, Tamara K. Anderson. Join me on a journey to find inspiring stories of hope and wisdom learned in life's hardest moments.

My guest today has lived in Idaho, Hungary, Virginia, and presently lives in Brigham City, Utah. He loves the outdoors and as a Boy Scout, he would spend more than a week at a time sleeping in a tent or under the stars. He enjoys cooking and baking both from recipe books and whipping something up impromptu using ingredients around the home. His vocation is helping people discover their needs and providing solutions to meet those needs. His career has led him to working with a number of companies from a computer startup to two Inc 5000 companies, and many jobs in between. I am pleased to present Mark Willis. Mark, are you ready to share your story of hope?

 

Mark  1:44 

Yes, thank you.

 

Tamara Anderson  1:46 

A cool thing about Mark is this is the first time I've had both a husband's perspective and a wife's perspective on my podcast. I was able to interview his wife Katy earlier this summer. And her episode released as Episode 56, if you want to go back and check that out. Today, we get Mark's perspective, and I am really, really excited to have him on. Before we dive into all of that, Mark, we've got to start with something fun. A little known fact about you is that you have been an extra in a movie. So why don't you tell me a little bit about that experience?

 

Mark  2:24 

A couple years ago, I was unrecognizable to a lot of people. In fact, my neighbor would look out and say, “Hello, Katie,” as I was working in the yard, and I would stand up or pull my hair back a little bit and she said, “Oh, hey, Mark.”

There was a beard to go along with it. I had grown a beard for two years in preparation to be a background actor in a spiritual-based video about pride and chastity. It was part of a multi-year project that’s still ongoing, called the Book of Mormon video series. It's not the Broadway Book of Mormon or the Book of Mormon new movie. It's scriptural based. The scene that I was in included a three-day recording that melted down to just 10 minutes of actual time on the set film near Springville, Utah. It depicts a civilization of people about 500 years before Christ, and the costuming, the skin blending, all of that was new to me. To be on set, to have this presentation of a prophet speaking to his posterity and people about the ills of pride and how chastity can give so much light and creates so much darkness for people was an interesting and fitting experience for my life as I look back at the experiences I've had, and the person that I'm seeking to be with every choice.

 

Tamara Anderson  4:02 

It is very applicable to your life and the struggles that you've had. We're gonna dive into that. So the interesting thing about Mark and what I absolutely love about his story is that he seemed to skim along rock bottom for a while. Yet you have been able to rebound with the aid of Jesus Christ. I think this is such an incredible and pertinent story, especially for our time. We're going to talk about mental health issues, financial struggles, and then sex addiction. I think that there are a lot of people who are struggling with this and so a lot of people will find hope in your story. So why don't we don't we dive in and talk a little bit about mental health struggles and see where we go from there.

 

Mark  4:59 

Yeah, I'll say that, I know I'm not alone, in so many ways. As I look back at my life, I felt alone, I felt like no one else could have been in the same situation I was. I thought it would ruin my life if I were to even open up just a windows’ worth to anybody. Looking back now I can see that that was definitely a way that Satan, the adversary, or my own mind, would work, to say, “No, no, you can't let anything in.” Especially not Christ, because this doesn't fit in with with what he's atoned for. The reality is, it's all part of the bigger picture. There is no path that I can go down, that anyone can go down, that's further than the reach of the Atonement.

 

Tamara Anderson  5:48 

You've had some mental health issues in your life, and they've kind of come and gone. Why don't you just touch on, briefly, what that looked like and felt like to go back?

 

Mark  5:59 

I'm from a family of six. As far as I can remember, I had a goal to serve as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My three older brothers had completed missions. I prepared myself for this mission, participating in Sunday school, seminary, family and personal studies, and learned about Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and how the individual stories in the scriptures could apply to me. I wasn't ready for a lot of the emotional toil that would bring, to be away from home for 24 months. I'd have a whole lot of rejection shoveled day after day, even though I was doing something that was so good and bright, so much light.

I was assigned to serve across the ocean in Hungary in Central Europe. It was a beautiful time with a lot of anticipation. I began to struggle mentally there. All of the hope and anticipation for what good was there but it was also discouraging. I was a lost little guy trying to figure out how do I talk to people? My heart wants to. How do I find the words that I can take from this little vocabulary of 20 words that I felt like I could put together. I became depressed. I felt that my purpose there was going unfulfilled and that if I didn't see X results in Y amount of time then it meant that I was the total failure those little voices in my head were telling me from earlier in my life that I actually was. There wasn't anything that was going to come out good.

Mark  8:07 

Now, anytime that I can see that up and down and crazy making, and in my own mind thinking that I'm not good enough, is an indication that I’m feeding myself a diet that is gonna just tank out. So I expressed my anxiety in letters home and to my mission leadership. But I wasn't expressing my needs or my feelings to the person who was with me 24/7, my trainer. It may have seemed like I was a nutcase going from feeling really high one day and then alone the next day, while not being able to put together what was really happening. I was falling apart inside.

I let my mind play out what could be better for me than life. I convinced myself that I'd be a hero in death, and that I accomplished that by completing suicide. As I looked out the window that was probably on the seventh story, I convinced myself it's not something I would live through. So that's perfect. I did open up to my mission leadership and the reality of the gravity of my situation was there. I was connected with a senior missionary, someone that was much older, like had been retired and chose to do a mission later in their life. He helped me to see that each new day brought new opportunities, and that I didn't need to face any of it alone, that there was a way to turn to the gospel of Jesus Christ to find that peace of the Atonement. That was already suffered for me, and to start building on it. That individual came at the right time and allowed me to see my life as more than what I would allow it to be painted. For myself, looking out that seven-story window and saying, “This is done. I'm gonna just be over.”

 

Tamara Anderson  10:24 

So let me just ask you a question about that. There's a lot of people out there who have been struggling, especially this year. Suicide rates have increased. What helped you be able to finally reach out and ask for help?

 

Mark  10:41 

The world can feel like it’s closing in and closing in more. I thought through option A, option B was the better option. It was never the option A. which was getting help. I just kept getting closer and closer to the worst choice. Everything wasn't cured for me with anxiety and depression from that moment of being able to go with option A and getting help. I had ups and downs, peaks and valleys. Absolutely. Instead, that meant that I needed to get tools, I needed to get help. I needed to be honest with myself about what I was thinking and feeling. A mind left to itself is the devil's playground. I played there long enough. It was time to get out and to get away.

 

Tamara Anderson  11:43 

So your experience then was that reaching out and getting help from other people is what really helped save you and helped give you the tools to cope and to know what to do when you hit those down days and down points in your life? Is that right?

 

Mark  12:03 

Yeah, reaching out in any situation of life can be, I feel, one of the hardest parts. We're in a culture where if you're not strong enough, smart enough, or attractive enough, then you have got this problem that you've got to take care of. Don't let anybody see while you're going through that process. We don't have a culture where people share on their social media accounts, “Last night, I was engaged in pornography for two hours and I need help.” Instead, we've got a society where we paint the pretty and the positive without any consideration for human frailty. Aren't we all struggling with something that Jesus Christ can help fill that hole? Not if we don't allow existing resources, like prayer, to its max extent go into that. Then we're just thinking that we have to do it on our own, which sure has failed in the past.

 

Tamara Anderson  13:12 

I think that, as you say, the adversary is very, very good at, once we start going down that path of feeling down and depressed, making us feel like okay, nobody else understands. You mentioned that earlier. The interesting thing is that so many people understand that. So many people understand what it is like to have depression. We have depression in my family. It's something that so many people are aware of, there's a lot of people dealing with it. There's a lot of resources out there. I'm so thankful that you have the courage to say something. I mean, it really does take courage, doesn't it? It's almost like you have to swallow your pride and say, “I'm drowning here, I need some help.”

 

Mark  14:08 

We love to just pick up a self-help book and say, “That person got it all figured out.” But the reality is before they could write that, they were in a situation that was bleak and dark, and without a reality of where the end was from the current. That's okay. We, as humans are so much on this planet to help and build each other more than we are to tear each other apart. We share so many common experiences. You put COVID on the plate and who else around the world is having the same situation as we are? Just about everybody. We are able to know that other people are being served up the same discouraging messages or the same fear about what a month from now, six months from now, a year from now might look like. We can connect, knowing that we might think we're alone but that's because we're in our own mind. We're in our own head at that moment, and our ego is in the driver's seat.

 

Tamara Anderson  15:24 

That's a powerful lesson to learn right there, is just reaching out and getting help. God answers our prayers, often through other people. We have to take that leap of faith that, “Hey, I'm gonna be brave and say, I'm really struggling.” Even if you reach out on social media. I've seen people say, on social media, “I had an awful day.” It's amazing, the outpouring of love, I think, because we've all been there. We've all been in situations where, “Oh, this is the worst ever.” People want to lift and help and love one another.

 

Mark  16:06 

So I think the superheroes were not meant to be invincible, because I think we open up opportunities for that human element that reminds us that we're not God. We do have a God, a Father in Heaven, and Savior, who actually can understand. It's not our battle to serve alone.

 

Tamara Anderson  16:34 

So Mark, let me ask you, once you reached out and got the help and the coping skills that you needed, was it all smooth sailing from there?

 

Mark  16:45 

No, it wasn't. What story in life would ever be good with just one high point and then everything else just works out? No. I wasn't cured of anxiety and depression and I still have ups, downs, peaks and valleys in life. So having a bad stretch of a couple of days or a bad day, I can still find myself reminded of how desired I am by the adversary, me personally, for the good that I want to do for the good that I am doing, or even for just the influence that I want to have. When the adversary backs me into that corner, it invites me to give up the progress that I feel that I've made. Something that I can see now is that I wasn't able to see in that moment. My fear, anxiety, distress and hopelessness were going unchecked. At any time in my life, when that's happening, those can be trigger points to send me back into some mental health struggle. So I'm not immune to it. But I'm aware of it now. I can do something a whole lot more than I could in that moment without having a plan.

 

Tamara Anderson  18:11 

I love that. I love how you've learned the coping techniques that you need. Life isn't perfect. After you've learned the lesson, but it becomes easier when you have the strategies in place to help you. Let's move along to another point in your life when things got a little crazy. Financial struggles, which led into sex addiction.

 

Mark  18:34 

Yeah, my mental health concerns returned as life was presenting new challenges. I was seven years into marriage with three kids, young kids that sure needed a lot of attention. That part's natural, but I wasn't giving myself attention and care that that would have put me on a different path. Instead, I was running myself ragged and just trying to serve that need of keeping a household going, of kids and being a father. I lost a lot of the ground that I had learned through the time on my mission and living a healthy balance in life. This struggle came as a trap door. The trap door was starting to just fall out from underneath me that my life was broken and needing a more sure foundation, a rock that Jesus Christ could give instead of what I built for myself.

 

Tamara Anderson  19:48 

So all these financial hardships started with one domino falling which was when the company you were working for went under. Why don't you describe to me what was going on in your mind? What was happening to your family at that point? So we can get a picture of how you were feeling and what you were thinking at that point.

 

Mark  20:15 

Yeah, the company I'd been working for, Tamara, it was my pride and joy. It was my little baby, because I had been there from the get go, grown it to multiple stores in multiple states and really loved everything about it. But it wasn't able to continue. It had been a company for five years. Financially, it just was going the other way. I had attached a whole lot of my identity to who I was there and then. As that started to go away, I didn't have 40 hours of my week, 50 hours a week, planned. It felt like I was going under if the company was going under, because I put so much of my identity into what I was doing there.

At home, Katie was definitely supportive of me finding a new job that I loved and that I was interested in. But I couldn't very quickly. I found minimum wage jobs, people that would hire me without interviewing me. I thought, “This isn't going to be a future.” That sent me spiraling to wonder about myself, what was I really worth? What was my worth if I was no longer able to provide for the family? I had savings. But that was going fast. I became prideful in that moment, because I had so much experience and built myself up so much. I would interview for these positions, dozens of interviews that I would be able to get, I couldn't get one person to offer me a position. I started to let that eat and eat and eat and canker at my self-worth.

I fell into that pattern from the mission of, “I'm not gonna reach out for help to let someone know how I'm feeling, or that I'm struggling. I gotta get those bootstraps up and go at this myself.” Something I did see that was an escape for me was pornography, because I had been introduced to that as a preteen. It was something that could satisfy a hole in my emotional bucket. It sure could take time, which I had a lot of. I allowed myself to just wallow and stay stuck instead of moving forward with the help of asking other people.

I started to make decisions that hurt my family financially, by not accepting any job available. I hurt my family by not providing as good as I could no matter what that looked like. I started to tell lies, that they were the cause of my problems, and that everyone else needed to just change. Then I would be happy, I would be successful, and the problems would go away. But they didn't. I had to get to a point where instead of allowing every finger to point at someone else, I needed to look at all the fingers that were pointing back at me. I was the common denominator, the one who needed to make a change, and to create a new path instead of going in the patterns that I was used to.

 

Tamara Anderson  24:08 

You reached kind of a bottoming out point here where it had impacted your marriage to the point that you and Katie were going to get divorced. Did you hit rock bottom? You really did, didn't you?

 

Mark  24:24 

I did. Rock bottom is the time when we look left, we look right, there's nowhere to go. For me, rock bottom had come after making decisions that rocked my marriage and rocked me personally. I found myself going places and doing things that I had committed that I never would. I was seeing pornography play out in real life. Instead of realizing that my problems were stemming back from me. I could look and see two paths before me, and know that I'd come up this path. If I continued on it, it would lead me to being alone, and divorced. The choices I was making made me feel that I didn't even want to see my kids because I was so caught up inside that I would be unfaithful in marriage and family in ways that I had committed, that I would never do again. But in order to go a different way, I had to make a pretty significant change. I had to be honest, and accountable and forward looking, instead of just looking at myself in the mirror, and my situation was the only one that mattered. If my pride was something I had to give up, then I'd rather not.

 

Tamara Anderson  26:08 

So what was it that helped you change? I mean, talk me through that decision, where all of a sudden, the light switch flipped, and you said, “Ah.” What was that?

 

Mark  26:22 

I'd conjecture that divorce from Katie would bring a separation for my triggers, and the accompanying shame and guilt and remorse. I proved to myself that I could run away from problems. I'd done it in the past. This was just another problem that I needed to run away from. Katie and I were going to meet with a lawyer to go forward with divorce, because I told her that's what I wanted. I'd said, “I'm done with this, I'm not going to change. So go forward with your life, and make sure that it's without me.”

The night before we were supposed to meet with the lawyer, she offered that we could go ahead and talk. I was living out of the home at that time. When I got that text message from her, it was a saving grace that I was willing to take that chance. Even though my marriage was in the 59th minute of the 11th hour, I could see that there was still time. She asked, “Do you just want to talk when the kids are in bed?” I said yeah, and we talked all night. We were able to express and communicate in ways that had been iced over emotionally. As I allowed myself, for the first time in a long time, to shed open tears, and to be thoughtful, and intentional about how I was treating her, it allowed that space for her to open and for me to open, and for us to be there for each other.

A takeaway I have from that conversation is that I needed to embrace change if I wanted to see change in my life. That was me speaking for me. Instead of thinking that other people were telling me I needed to change, this was going to be me, deciding for me. If I wanted my marriage to survive, then I needed to get help. That was so important and so useful. Through the past nine years, since my personal tipping point, I have made wonderful friends and resources as I open up that door, to realize and to continually remind myself that it's okay to be broken. Because that brokenness is human. That's what I've asked to do is to be human, and to change along the way towards a better person.

 

Tamara Anderson  29:19 

Oh my goodness, Mark. I'm so sad that you guys had to hit that rock bottom, but I'm thankful that you were able to make that choice in your mind and then move forward and get the help that you needed.

We're going to take a quick break, but when we get back we'll have Mark tell us all about the lessons learned along his life journey.

How many of you out there feel like your life is chaotic, crazy, and completely awful compared to the norm? What if I were to tell you that you are normal for you? I am so excited to announce that my book, “Normal for Me,” by Tamara K. Anderson, is now available for purchase on Amazon. This book took me 10 years to write. I share 20 years’ worth of lessons learned in my life detours, including being in a car accident and having two of my children diagnosed on the autism spectrum. In this book, I share the secrets of how I made it from despair to peace, with God's help. I also include a bonus Diagnosis Survival Guide at the very end of “Normal for Me.” The Diagnosis Survival Guide includes 12 tips to survive and thrive in tough times. Wouldn't you like to know what those are? So what are you waiting for? Grab your copy of “Normal for Me” today on Amazon.

And we're back. I've been talking to Mark Willis about the choices he had to make to overcome anxiety, depression and addiction. So let me ask you this, you've gone through a lot of ups and downs in your life. What are some of the lessons that you have learned through it all? I know we've talked about the power of reaching out and getting help already. You mentioned briefly as we dove into this, that you weren't taking care of yourself, and that self-care is super important. Why don't you talk me through some of the self-care things that you do now, that help you take care of you so that you don't descend into the pits of despair again?

 

Mark  31:43 

For me, a lot of times, that can come in the early morning hours. I wake up before everybody else. That's my time, to be able to feast on a good diet, a good mental diet, and spiritual diet, and being okay to be alone with myself. There were plenty of times in my life that I didn't want to be with me. I didn't like who I was. I would just fill up that time with anything that was other people centered, even though it might have looked good that I was cleaning the house, or that I was reaching out to other people to fill my bucket. That was never enough. Because I was offering to them when I wasn't even filled myself.

 

Tamara Anderson  32:46 

So that time that you take in the mornings helps you fill your bucket. So then you're able to give to others throughout the rest of the day. Is that a good summary?

 

Mark  32:59 

Yeah. So if I wake up and I have a baseline, that's like at 10. Then tough things are happening with work or family, or the weather is just not what I want it to be. Maybe that goes down to like a six or a five. But it's not zero. Zero is where things get bad.

 

Tamara Anderson  33:20 

Yeah,

 

Mark  33:20 

I've got to make sure that my baseline is steady and do what it takes, even in that moment, to walk away when I'm getting near zero, and get that baseline back up.

 

Tamara Anderson  33:34 

Does that morning routine also include connecting with God on a daily basis, allowing yourself to tap into that strength on a daily basis?

 

Mark  33:46 

Yes. If I'm open to be taught, then I am so often taught. But if I think that I don't need an open pathway, to hear the voice of God, through prayer, through scriptures, through meditation, then I'm closed, and then closing keeps out the light.

 

Tamara Anderson  34:11 

I’ve found that to be true in my own life. It's interesting, I also wake up before everybody else in my household and have that time to connect with God, but I found that I need it. I need that because I do feel like I'm giving the whole rest of the day and so that self-care, that morning time just for me is important. I've never been a morning person. I'm just gonna start up and say that, but I found that that taking that conscious choice to put what I need first and that's my connection with God enables me to be a better Tamara for everybody else. Have you found that to be true in your own life?

 

Mark  34:51 

Yeah. As you said, “Can I be a better Mark?” Because I'm not expecting to change someone else. I've got to be yoked to Christ in order to have a pathway that He can change me. That's where I am enough, where I'm allowing God into my life and to let go of narcissism, that it's all about me, that I need to be noticed awarded, rewarded. That never turns out to be enough. But with God, it is enough. Because He is enough.

 

Tamara Anderson  35:32 

You put that so beautifully. Oh, my word. I love that. So what are some of the things that you do to fill your bucket?

 

Mark  35:43 

I love podcasts, to listen to something that's motivational. If it's business related, or if it's personal, there's podcasts that I subscribe to that I know will fill me fill my mind with the positive, the good, and the light. I give myself self-compassion. No one else can give that to me. Self-compassion is being able to clearly recognize where I am, and accept myself for where I am, from my past. I accept myself right now for the decisions that I'm making, and have compassion that the future may look different than I want it to. But no matter where it is, I want to be gentle with myself all along the way.

 

Tamara Anderson  36:41 

That is such a good tip. It's hard to do, right? Oh, yeah. Let me ask you this with regards to self-compassion. Do you feel that learning self-compassion was something that you learned the closer you got to God? Because He is ultimate in His mercy and His love for his children. Do you think that's something that helped you, that when you knew God loved you, no matter what, that you were then able to give that to yourself? Did you see that process at all?

 

Mark  37:20 

Yes, if I'm willing to open that door, and allow someone to love me. When I feel unlovable, then I'm inviting Jesus Christ, and God to be there at my side. Instead of saying, I've got to do that alone. I've got to be that Superman. It all changes when I'm able to say mortal imperfection is perfectly designed to give me the outcome of becoming more like God, because I can see decision after decision where I can be different. Yeah, that first step and doing something different, for me, is to desire that change. The next step is to lean in that direction, even before my feet start walking through there.

 

Tamara Anderson  38:19 

So in order to make any of these changes, you had to be able to have that hope that “Hey, I can get out of this,” and work towards that and let that hope pull you forward? Is that what you're saying? I love that. Let me ask you this. What tips would you share with someone who's in a similar situation? Whether it be struggling with mental issues, financial issues, or sexual addiction? What tips would you share with them?

 

Mark  38:56 

Let Christ be Christ. Don't try to fill his role. Jeffrey R. Holland said, “No matter how late you think you are, no matter how many chances you think you've missed, or how many mistakes or if you feel that you've done something that's beyond the reach of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, it's really not true. You can never sink lower than the infinite light of Christ’s Atonement shines.” I love that. If I try to make myself the Savior, then I'm saying I don't need any of that. That's so far from the truth that I'm just giving away that perfect brightness of hope that Jesus Christ offers

 

Tamara Anderson  39:46 

That is so, so true. I never thought about it like that until you kind of phrased it that way but that we are trying to be our saving grace versus allowing Him to be our saving grace. I've never associated pride in that manner in my brain until you said that. I don't know why that just clicked in my brain. But that is a really powerful idea that pride is thinking we can do it. Whereas humility is allowing the Savior to help us. That's a really cool concept.

 

Mark  40:24 

Be penitent, which is humble before God. I can be repentant for things that I need to change. I don't need to pretend that it's not there. You talk about pride. The pride, as I see in my life, I felt that my worthiness depended upon my achievements, talents, beauty, intellect, any of that. It was never enough, because pride made me ugly. Pride made me self-centered. Pride made me feel that I was that failure who just had to keep doing it myself.

 

Tamara Anderson  41:08 

You've mentioned some amazing lessons so far. Are there any other lessons that you have learned that would be beneficial to other people? If they're struggling with these same things?

 

Mark  41:22 

Sure. There’s a simple quote, “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.”

 

Tamara Anderson  41:33 

I love that.

 

Mark  41:35 

I was able to stop seeing myself as the sinner and my wife as the saint, but then see that, “Oh, we both need the Savior.” Because there is a Savior, there's a future for every choice and every situation. Save Christ alone, no one can or will be perfect. I needed to remove the expectation of myself and everyone else from that pedestal of being perfect so that we can all be human in this shared experience.

I've learned that my mindset and patterns can really go unchecked. If they do, I need to learn quickly from that, so that life's not crumbling around me. I slip progressively back towards a mental rock bottom.

 

Tamara Anderson  42:38 

What are some of the things that you do to make sure that your mindset doesn't slip?

 

Mark  42:45 

I have checkpoints.

 

Tamara Anderson  42:49 

Have you written them down? Or is it just a mental list?

 

Mark  42:53 

I have a checkpoint of, “How am I feeling in my body? How am I feeling in my mind? What am I believing that's a half-truth right now?

 

Tamara Anderson  43:09 

Do you ask yourself that question every day, then? Is that part of like your morning mantra, your morning routine?

 

Mark  43:16 

I think it's more subliminal now, rather than pulling out a sheet of paper and saying, “All right, let's write down the half-truths of what I believe in.” I need to be able to go in a quick moment, to be able to check my emotions, or what is happening to me. There's a quick acronym of NAME that gives better context for what my emotions are teaching me. N is Notice. A is Acknowledge. M is Make space. E is Expanding awareness. So when I can NAME what's going on in my life, then I disarm it from taking me down emotionally.

 

Tamara Anderson  44:09 

So it's basically recognizing, “Okay, I'm feeling this emotion. What is it?” Right. I like how you said you have to notice it. You have to realize, “Okay, I'm feeling…” and describe it.

 

Mark  44:25 

Acknowledge it that I am feeling that. So if I’m really angry that that there is this event that's happened… Let me say that last night I was making pizza for my son's birthday. I used one hot pad instead of two to take the pizza out of the oven. Oops. That little floppy tray fell on the floor and the pizza was upside down now and this household of hungry people wanting celebration was changed in that moment. We each had our own emotions. I needed to notice. Why was I so prideful that I didn't want to use the second hot pad that had been offered by Katie? I said, “No, no, I'll do this with one.” She could see what was going to happen before I did. In an addicted or an unhealthy mind, I would put that blame on her, “Well you bought this pizza, this was dumb, I didn't even want to have pizza.” But I needed to name what was happening, I needed to notice that I was being prideful about not even wanting a second hot pad, I needed to acknowledge that that pride had an effect on other people. I needed to make space to really be honest, that I'm okay. I'm allowed to make mistakes. Pride can go out the window as soon as I expand the awareness to say, “Yep, we're done. It's time to say sorry, and how do we still make this dinner?”

 

Tamara Anderson  46:22 

I'm so glad you gave that example, because it's walked us through the steps and how all this is inside your mind. Right? That is beautiful. I love that technique. What other techniques have you learned that have helped you?

 

Mark  46:43 

Other people can have trauma in their life. That could have happened years and years ago. Though I or society might say, “Get over it, it's done. Just just move on with life,” trauma has a long memory. It's actually stored in our long term memory. So while I have years of recovery and sobriety under my belt, that does not magically mean that the pain and hurt and trauma of how decisions I've made and how they've affected others have just gone away. So I need to be really aware that trauma being served up is not a slap in my face, that I've done something wrong in that moment. Instead, that the other person has a reminder of something from the past. It's my job, like a little rock, to carefully handle that memory that Katie or someone else might be having, and not try to hit them over the head with that rock and say, “Well, see it's your problem.” Go to the pizza. Do I say, “Well, it's your problem that you bought this pizza, or it's your fault you had a birthday today?” No, the reality is that I'm part of the picture of what's happening. I don't have to solve the problem. I need to be accountable, honest and humble for the things that I've done that have created pain instead of just putting it somewhere, that I'm a bad person, because this happened in the past. And someone else feels pain from it, that trauma.

 

Tamara Anderson  48:33 

So let me ask you this, because a lot of people who have dealt with an addiction in the past and feel a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. How have you been able to heal from that aspect of it?

 

Mark  48:50 

I get to feel that I'm a new person every time I make a choice that reminds me that I'm not the old Mark. I get to make that decision. Every time I can feel my Savior's love for me and to recognize that the Atonement is active in my life. I don't need to allow my past to define my future. Because I know who I am. I'm a son of God. And He wants me to remember the past and to change from it.

 

Tamara Anderson  49:32 

I love that. It's interesting that monumental grief and shame is something that Satan wants you to continue to live in. The Savior wants to pull you up and away from it. It almost is a choice who you're going to listen to. It doesn't mean that Satan is going to stop trying to attack you with all that. But that choosing to remember whose you are, I love how you said that helps you move forward, instead of always looking back. So it's a matter of which way you're facing almost.

 

Mark  50:13 

It is. When I can see that I'm on a path that I want to be on and that I can continue to be on it by making steps in that direction. It’s not someone else's race. It's a journey of 1000 miles. And the destination is all ready. It's available for me. And that love of God is what I get to feel everywhere along the journey.

 

Tamara Anderson  50:45 

I love that. Why don't you talk me through, I know you have like a ginormous list of resources that have helped you and that you recommend for other people who are struggling. What are some of those things?

 

Mark  50:59 

There's countless resources. The application of them can be as varied as the people themselves. So if one hasn't worked, try another one. If something always works, then that's a personal testimony for them of what works, right? It doesn't mean that I'm broken if it didn't work for me. I believe in prevention and education. I believe in getting out of the dark of the night, in that moment and just running to the light of day. I do that through powers of affirmation, that I believe there's a real message and knowing that I am divine, I am connected. I'm expressive. And I'm loved. That I am those things because God is who Je is. He's divine. He's connected, expressive, and He is love. So I don't need to create myself to be someone different than what I'm divinely intended to be. Once I find that, it's so much more familiar.

 

Tamara Anderson  52:26 

I love that you shared some of your affirmations with us. I think those are beautiful and powerful. So finding the affirmations that resonate with you and that help move you forward is definitely an amazing resource. Wow, what else? What else can you give us?

 

Mark  52:45 

As far as resources go, being real, authentic and vulnerable is not weakness. But it's actually what I've seen great, deep, deep impact of lasting change, and a commitment to have a life different from where I've come from.

 

Tamara Anderson  53:06 

I love that. What were some of the programs that you used to help educate yourself and pull you out of that pattern of addiction?

 

Mark  53:23 

Some of the programs that do work for me and have had phenomenal impact have been group recovery programs. One is LifeStar. They treat trauma for an individual, an addict and who they are, and his loved ones. That's LifeStar. There's a 12 step Addiction Recovery Program put on by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that meets locally, or virtually over the phone. It's an open opportunity to be with people who are wanting to make change in their life from any undesirable behavior. It's the Atonement application program, that I was able to find a deeper level of who Christ is in my life by going through that Addiction Recovery Program.

 

Tamara Anderson  54:22 

That program isn't just for the person who has had the addiction, isn't it also for the spouse or the loved ones of those who are experiencing it?

 

Mark  54:33 

Yes. Healing Through Christ is another program that truly helps a spouse to see that they didn't create the problem, and they have their own need to get help. So that's the, “Every saint has a past every sinner has a future” idea. It applies to everyone. It's not just for the scumbag.

 

Tamara Anderson  54:57 

I love that there's resources out there for everyone that's involved in the situation, because we all need that help. We all need that healing.

 

Mark  55:06 

Some of the podcasts that I subscribe to and put into that morning digest of how I'm going to be continually committed to a different way of life are “Betrayal Trauma SOS,” by Jeni Brockbank, “Virtual Couch” by Tony Overbay, and “Unashamed Unafraid.” That one is a phenomenal group who are unashamed about sexual addiction recovery, and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing.

 

Tamara Anderson  55:41 

That sounds awesome. What else? What other resources do you have for us?

 

Mark  55:45 

There’s some books. One is called, “Get Your Needs Met!” by Bob Stahn. There's another called, “I See You: How Compassion and Connection Save Lives.” That's by Julie Lee. It was just put out this year and is interesting to read within the frame of the pandemic that's happening, how we can really see other people and have compassion and connection, right now, amid everything that's happening. I love finding content that is put out by people seeking to change the norm, to change the way that society sees pornography in today's environment. With videos, there’s, “Brain, Heart, World.” It's a three part documentary by a group called Fight the New Drug. Personally, to me, pornography was my drug of choice. So this really speaks to me. That documentary is fantastic for teaching things in a way that are even presented positively for kids. I've shared it with my kids.

 

Tamara Anderson  56:49 

Oh, I was just going to ask, what do you do to help children stay away from it?

 

Mark  56:54 

Involving kids, there's the organization protectyoungminds.org. A book is “Good Pictures, Bad Pictures.”

 

Tamara Anderson  57:09 

That's cool. So you can even teach it to young children, right?

 

Mark  57:14 

It works for parents with children who are not sure how to start a conversation about something that was never comfortable to start. There's a junior version. This junior version is meant for kids, even younger, like three to five. Just last night for date night, what Katie and I chose to do is to watch a documentary called “Our Kids Online.” It was a couple from New Zealand who really were floored with the task of teaching their kids about sexuality and healthy sexuality. They could see that society sure wasn't doing a good job of it. So they reached out to find experts and the reality of what has society done. So many aspects of what was shared speak to me about the hurt that I walked through in the 90s, as a teenager, struggling with what was being served up on the internet, and believing that it was somehow going to be the normal for what I would find in marriage, for sexuality. The world has got it all wrong. It's selling this message that resources like “Good Pictures, Bad Pictures,” and “Our Kids Online” are helping to reframe into how we protect and love each other in ways that are safe and healthy.

Sigmund Freud has said that “A man with a cake cannot be in love.” As I heard that, at first I thought, “Okay, no kidding, it’s a toothache” But when we've got a problem, it is so prominent in our lives, that nothing else is really mattering. To me, that problem of my youth was an emotional hole that I wasn't able to see and respond to the challenges in a way that was healthy. My tooth was aching, but I wasn't able to get past that and get it taken care of until much, much later in life when these resources became real and active for me to root out at the bottom. Guess I had a root canal. I was able to get beyond where I was stuck for so many years,

 

Tamara Anderson  1:00:01 

I love that comparison. I've never thought about it but you're absolutely right. That can apply to almost any situation in life. Mark, do you have a favorite verse of scripture that has become meaningful to you?

 

Mark  1:00:17  

I do. It's Psalms 51:10-13. “Create in me, a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with the free spirit, then will I teach transgressors thy ways, and centers shall be converted unto thee.” This speaks to me because I have lived in a dark cave with my unclean heart for so long. When I was able to allow God to change me, I didn't have to be in a cave, didn't have to try and bury that past. I was able to say, “I want to be converted to you so that I can be an instrument in some way to do good.”

Tamara Anderson  1:01:14 

I love this entire story, because it shows that there is hope, that anyone can choose to rely on the Savior and heal. All right, Mark, this has been such an incredible interview, before we wind things up is are there any last thoughts or ideas that you want to share with us?

 

Mark  1:01:39 

I know I'm not done changing in life, I don't want to be done changing. He is welcome. And the dark corners of my life, He is welcome to give ongoing healing for me, and the way that I have betrayed relationships. He does not want me to do it alone. When I'm thrown back to triggers, or reminders of anything, that doesn't mean that I fallen off the path, or that I'm ready to make poor choices again. Instead, it's a reminder that I can come closer to Christ and have another experience with Him.

 

Tamara Anderson  1:02:25 

Thank you.

 

Mark  1:02:27  

Here's a resource that has just been made known to me this week. It's through a group called Self-Reliance Services of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's called Emotional Resilience. And I know that there must be more hope and peace in that. So I'm excited to try that out. It's just new for me.

 

Tamara Anderson  1:02:49 

That is awesome. We will be sure to put all these resources that you have talked about in the show notes so that people can find them more easily, and be able to use them in their lives as well. So thank you for sharing such an amazing amount of resources. This has been fantastic. Now Mark, there's going to be people who just resonate with your story, how do they contact you or get a hold of you?

 

Mark  1:03:17 

Personally, I have a bottom line in recovery that I don’t have any social media. It keeps me safer, and it's something that I am committed to. So I don't have any personal social media accounts. But Katie, my wife does. You can connect with me through her by Facebook, she's Be Still Services, or on Instagram at Be Still with Katie Willis, or there's a blog. And that's bestillservices.blogspot.com.

 

Tamara Anderson  1:03:53 

We’ll be sure to link those as well. Mark, you have shared quite a journey here from the ups to the way, way downs and I'm so thankful that you are willing to share this journey with us because I think it gives us all hope. It helps us be able to point to the source of all hope and healing, which is Jesus Christ.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's show. I know that there are many of you out there that are going through a hard time and I hope you found things that have been useful today as you listened to the podcast. If you would like to access the show notes from today's podcast, visit my website, storiesofhopepodcast.com. That is where you'll find favorite quotes from today's episode and shareable memes. Those are fun because you can share them with your friends on social media. You will also find the links mentioned throughout today's episode so you don't have to remember what those were and also all the details. Sometimes tips are shared so much throughout an episode you forget and wonder, “What were those great things?” So go to the show notes, storiesofhopepodcast.com to look up these fantastic resources. You know, if someone kept coming to mind during today's episode, perhaps that means that you should share this with them. Maybe there was a story shared or a tip that they really, really need to hear. So go ahead and share this episode with them. May God bless you, especially if you're struggling, with hope to carry on and with the strength to keep going when things get tough. Remember to walk with Christ and He will help bear that burden. Above all else, remember God loves you.

 

Tamara AndersonAddiction, Mental Health