Sara Visser: Parenting--Learning to Let Go and Let God
There was a day when the lights seemed to go out in Sara’s daughter, and the struggle for her life began as she battled depression and suicide. She shares the hard lessons learned as she struggled to find God in her extremity.
Episode Discussion Points
Why she loves to read more than watch movies
Why life not turning out the way we expect can be a good thing (but maybe we don’t see it right away)
The story of her teenage daughter coming into depression and wanting to do self-harm, having suicidal ideations
How she felt so helpless and hopeless as a mother trying to help her daughter go through this.
Her story is her story—perfectly designed by a loving God for her family. Everyone’s story is going to be unique for them.
Depression can try your faith in God—because you often can’t feel Him there.
As a parent she struggled comparing her daughter to other kids her age and what she thought she would be doing.
Her daughter’s addiction to self-harm
How she felt when she wasn’t getting the answer to prayers she wanted.
The rough counsel she got one day, “You need to grow up in your prayers,” which helped her realize she had the answer to her prayers all along (but just didn’t realize it).
As a parent you need to trust your gut
Children do reach a point where they are ready to take responsibility for their own health and decisions
How she felt reading her daughter’s suicide note in her journal, and the chronic worry that ensued
How she chose to begin repeating the mantra, “I’m choosing faith!” when the fear felt so all-consuming.
She reached a point that night where she realized she couldn’t save her daughter and that she had to be okay with whatever God’s plan was for her.
From this point on she began to make choices based on faith instead of fear.
The great advice she learned from a friends that she applied, “You can leave the church but you can’t leave our family.”
Talk through what the situation of a child leaving the faith will look like with your spouse and family—and how you choose to love them.
The negative thoughts she had after helping her daughter move in with her boyfriend as she left for college—leaving behind all she had taught her.
The inspiration she had walking and grieving: As earthly parents we are supposed to be imperfect parents, but what was her intention 100%? If yes, then she did her best—it was enough.
Move through the grief without the shame and guilt. We never grow from shame or guilt.
Praying with gratitude for good and the bad in our lives and the lives of our loved ones—because ultimately it will lead them back to God.
Why it’s important to write down what you believe at your deepest core.
Example: “I believe my Heavenly Father is all-knowing, and He is always working out in front of me to make everything happen for my good and the good of those I love.”
If you believe this then you can trust God will help life work out for your good—and you will have hope.
Often when you are dealing with trauma you may not feel God is a part of your story. At those times, pray and ask God to show you how He IS a part of your story.
It is not just you fighting the battle for your child—there are also loved ones—angels, who are there fighting with you. The example of Sara’s mom helping her daughter one dark night when she wanted to commit suicide.
How she has gained so much love and compassion for those for whom suicide is a part of their journey.
How God is with each person on their journey—even if that includes suicide.
For those left—seek for peace until the understanding comes.
“Pain is part of life,” Sara explained, “but suffering is optional.”
For parents—don’t forget to fill your own cup because then you have so much more to give.
A creative way to teach children the concept of why the focus of parents sometimes goes to another child who is in trauma.
It’s a sacred privilege to be someone’s safe place.
Things to Try With a Loved-One Struggling with Depression
First, know there is no quick fix
Lean on God heavily
Prayer
Fasting
Talking to family/loved ones
Working with a counselor
Find coping mechanisms—for her daughter it was driving and talking
Be open to taking medication, but it has to be their choice
Lessons
We are always being guided by the Spirit if we are living right and it will help lead us on the right path and to find the correct conclusions.
Love your children fiercely no matter what. They are part of your family.
God is the perfect parent, so we don’t have to be. He is the Master fixer and healer and will help each of His children as we come to Him.
Sometimes you’ve done enough and God commands you to “be still” and “let go and let God.”
Agency—the ability to choose—is as sacred to God as Christ’s atonement.
Favorite Bible Verse
Joshua 1:9, "Have I not commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee withersoever thou goest."
Need Additional Help? Check out These Resources
Sara is a life coach who specializes in dealing with parents whose kids are in crisis. Website: FindHopeCoaching.com or you can email Sara at findshopecoaching@gmail.com
Audio lecture, “How to Hug a Teenage Porcupine,” by Dr. John Lund.
Michael McLean faith crisis story. Watch a quick 5 minute version of his story on YouTube here.
#tamarakanderson #storiesofhopeinhardtimes #podcast #hope #God #hardtimes #depression #suicide #mentalillness #faithcrisis #letgoletgod #angels #agency #parenting
Transcription
You can find the transcription of today's episode here:
Sara Visser 0:02
Heavenly Father, where are you? This is like life and death. She's doing everything you're asking her to do. But you know, why aren't you changing things or answering things and it really tries your face and especially when they are at a point, especially through the depression where they can't feel anything.
Tamara Anderson 0:25
Welcome to stories of hope in hard times, the show that explores how people endure and even thrive in difficult times, all with God's help. I'm your host Tamra Kay Anderson. Join me on a journey to find inspiring stories of hope and wisdom learned in life's hardest moments.
Tamara Anderson 0:50
My guest today has been married 32 years and has had the opportunity to live in several parts of the world including China. She is the mother of five has three in law kiddos and one grandchild with a second on the way. She loved being a stay at home mom first and foremost, but has also been able to be a doula and childbirth educator for 18 years, she has started six small businesses, and only two of them lost money by the way. And she is currently a life coach for parents of kids who are in any kind of crisis with self harming suicidal anxiety, depression or faith crisis challenges. She has worked in her church for decades and recently found out she loves working with the youth. I am pleased to present Sarah Visser. Sarah, are you ready to share your story of hope?
Sara Visser 1:42
Yes, I am.
Tamara Anderson 1:44
Awesome. Sarah and I met what feels like a million years ago, when we were both living in Arkansas, and we got to work together on amazing choir that we helped lead back there it was, it was so much fun. So let's break the ice today a little bit with a little known fact about you. And this is that you love to read more than watching movies.
Sara Visser 2:13
Every time I will choose reading.
Tamara Anderson 2:15
Yeah, tell me what is your favorite genre to read.
Sara Visser 2:19
So when I say love it more than movies I'm talking about when I want to take a break. So I'm not talking about some deep teach me everything. Let me get knowledge I'm talking about let me take a break and not think. So when I'm talking about that. It's just just give me any really great novel that's gonna capture my, my mind. And I'm all in all in young adult fiction, adult fiction, historical fiction, whatever, doesn't matter, all genres. I just, it's just a really great way for me to just stop my brain for a minute. And, and relax. So again, it's always my choice.
Tamara Anderson 2:57
So you are we you tend to use it as a stress reliever than an escape? Yep. That is what I do as well. Well, Sarah, we're going to dive into a little bit of your story today. And life doesn't always play out how we imagined it. Well, does it?
Sara Visser 3:15
Don't let's just say life never plays out? Right? We can we can totally count on that. Yes, I believe that we can count on that.
Tamara Anderson 3:25
Indeed, indeed. So why don't you give us a little bit of background and then dive into this especially challenging glitch that came up in your family's story that has changed the trajectory of what you do?
Sara Visser 3:42
Yeah, my whole life has changed because of this. So I just want to start out by saying that while life never goes, like we expect, that's also on the good side. Like there are things that we've experienced and been able to do that I never dreamed would happen in my life. That had been amazing. And we get the other half of that too, right? Were there things come up that we just could have never dreamed or expected and would have never signed up for? Never. And we are right, thank goodness, because in the middle, and on the other end, we start to see that maybe there can be some good in it, maybe there can be some change in some learning.
Sara Visser 4:17
So we have five kids from 30 to 13. And some years ago, one of our kids, one of our daughters, the one we were the least worried about, came into a really deep depression. And that started over about a year's time. And we weren't even super aware of it in the beginning, didn't have any experience with depression at that time in our family. And so we're pretty unaware of what was happening and her too, for that matter. There were some events that happened that kind of were catalysts. And then over time, it just got worse and worse. So at one point she came to me and said, Mom, I want to hurt myself. And of course blew my mind. and this was between eighth and ninth grade, towards the summer, well, actually the fall of her ninth grade, the events that were kind of catalystic happened at the end of eighth grade. And then through the summer, she seemed great.
Sara Visser 5:14
And then going into the fall, she was, you know, having a hard time wanting to go to school, things like that, but not really pinpointing that this is what was happening. So when she came and said that, wow, that like got my attention, her attention. And from there, we just, she sunk into a really, really deep, deep depression for probably five, five and a half years, and kind of went through everything self harm, suicidal ideation, she didn't ever try to commit suicide. So I have not experienced that. But she has written suicide notes, she kind of Yeah, had some a lot of thoughts about that. A lot of thoughts of escaping, running away type of thing, just to get away from everything. Those kinds of things. Also kind of abrash with anorexia, she played around with that for a little bit and wasn't eating and you know, kind of starving herself. So some really rough things that we didn't have any experience in. And I'm just like, sorry, that those of you who've been through this know what it looks like to see the lights go off in such a way up child.
Sara Visser 6:27
And it was really painful to watch, and to not know what to do to feel so helpless and hopeless, right, and just trying to get our feet under us and get some traction. And when someone has a mental break like that takes a long, long time for most people to heal and to figure it out. And to come out of that. And so that's kind of where our, my story comes from, and how we experienced that and dealt with that has a whole bunch of facets, all of that. A lot of that in the Gospel, and our beliefs in a Savior, who loves us unconditionally, who understands exactly what we're feeling exactly what we're going through my daughter's desire to at first turn to him, and then not feeling anything, when she felt like she was really trying to find hope and peace through him. And then her actually turning away from it completely and leaving the church and deciding to live with someone. And just wow, we've just I feel like we really experienced almost all of it. But she is alive today. And a lot of that comes through some of the things that she chose to try to find hope and, and healing through all of that. So I don't know if that's kind of what you're looking for you just like an overview of it or?
Tamara Anderson 7:52
Absolutely. And I can only imagine, take me through some of the thoughts that you had as a parent. Because I know that as a parent who has children who struggle with mental illness, I know a lot of the thoughts that you end up having. And, and why don't why don't we dive into a little bit of that. And some of the things that you were able to do to help her because often when when we have situations like this, that where we don't know what we can do, we have to turn to professionals. And so who you ended up turning to the things that you tried, didn't try didn't work. Maybe some of them did. And and what finally helped her pull out of the depression? If so,
Sara Visser 8:47
yes. So she, in the beginning, she didn't want any help, right. And so, because we didn't realize the depth she was already at, we just talked a lot like a lot about prayer, fasting, talking, being open with us. That's one thing, huge blessing. She wasn't ever angry at John and I and my husband. So she did use us as a resource, and mostly me and was really open most of the time. And so that's amazing. I know that everyone has such a different experience with this. I also want to say that my experiences are experienced, perfectly designed for us and our batter. And so sometimes I think it's hard to hear these stories, because our child hasn't found hope yet. And so then it's really hard to listen to someone who's on the other side of it. Because we start and I know that because while we were in the middle of it, lots of thoughts would come to my mind about Heavenly father Where are you? This is like life and death. She's doing everything you're asking her to do. But you know, why aren't you changing things or answering things? And sorry, this has got to be emotional because I've been able to talk about this for a long time now without crying that It really tries your face. And especially when they are at a point, especially through the depression where they can't feel anything because they are feeling so low, which is one of the reasons people self harm, right, they can't feel anything, and they just want to feel anything. So they're willing to even harm themselves for it.
Sara Visser 10:16
So lots of times, I had a lot of thoughts about comparing her with other kids and seeing what she was missing. And where I thought she would be and what she would get to experience in those years. And not only that, also the light she would bring to the world, because this is a child who has a very deep heart and loves like no other like, she just wanted to wants to take the world's pain on her, she doesn't want anyone else to suffer. So to watch her being the one held back from being such a light in the world, it was really hard for me to understand why that would be her path when she had so much to give, and the world turning already, right. So that was something I thought a lot about.
Sara Visser 11:02
And I still don't know all the answers to that, except for the growth that all of us have through this, and especially her. So sorry, this probably isn't really going to be an order. But some of the things that we tried, eventually, we gave her kind of an ultimatum, either you're going to get checked into a facility this weekend, or you're going to start seeing a counselor totally fine, whatever you want to choose. So of course, she chose the counselor. So that started her working with a counselor, which again, takes a lot of time, it's there's no quick fix, in my experience with this. And then the people that we know and love. She at first was very unwilling to let it help her, she didn't really open up or any way it took a long time, I would say six or seven months before she really started to maybe feel like it was maybe helpful. But that didn't change. Now the addiction to self harm. And the rush that she would get from that even though it sounds so unhealthy. At the time, it's you can build something and so it feels good, right? So so that took a lot of time for her to come to a place where she wanted to stop that and wanted to try to find other ways to cope and to deal with things.
Sara Visser 12:19
One of her coping mechanisms became that we would drive for hours. And that never happened before like midnight. So we would be out on the country roads of Arkansas, to in the morning driving, just driving, driving, driving, driving and talking. And I think it allowed her to just come down come down just a little from wherever she was at. We also she was very, very, very firm, passionate that she was not going to take medication. We were super open to it and that she was not. And it's really interesting that that her neither her physician or her counselor ever brought that up to us. It's so interesting to me looking back, like why didn't they bring that up to us. So this also was like a huge thing, because we were getting a lot of pressure from friends and family that she should be on medication. But literally it would have been a battle like you can't force feed a 16 year old or medication, right? No, no, you can't.
Sara Visser 13:19
So but I was being super prayerful about that I came to a place that did a lot of research and with her personality and everything as I wanted to be supportive of that decision for her. And so I was being super prayerful, like just praying like Heavenly Father, we've, I've researched, I've talked to people, I have done all the steps and in feeling confident about supporting her and not taking medication, no answer, like zero, nothing. And so, you know, for a few nights, I'm fine with that, when I have that quiet time to think and ponder and pray. And but eventually I started being like no Emily father, like, this is life and death. Like this isn't one of those times where either things thing. You know, I'm doing all the steps. I you know, I this is really important. And in that time, I had gone in to meet with our state president about something else. And he was unaware of all the situation.
Sara Visser 14:13
And there's an old family friend, and he said something to me like, Oh, how's it going? And of course, I just lit started crying and anyway filled him in a little bit about what was happening. And I remember he was just like, listening, listening, listening. And I was telling him specifically about this about praying about whether or not she should it was okay if she didn't get on medications. So it's not even like I was asking him should she like in my mind? I'm like, No, I'm really doing this, like we decided you're not answering. So I'm telling him all this and he just paused for a minute when I stopped talking and looked right at me and just said you need to grow up in your prayers. And I was like, wait, what? What are you talking about? And he said, You need to grow up in your prayers. Like you need to just go with it. Like you need to know that the spirit is always with you. And if you are having thoughts that are leading you to a certain conclusion, and you pray, you don't get an answer, then your conclusion is right. It was always the spirit helping you have that feeling and that thought, and I'm like, no, no, no, you ponder it out, you decide you come to me or burn your bosom all this stuff, right? Or however the spirit talks to you.
Sara Visser 15:20
And I've had many experiences with that relying on answers to prayer. And knowing that Heavenly Father God answered my prayer. And so I left there thinking that's not true. And really played around with that for the next six to eight months, I think around there before I finally came to a place where I was like, oh, that's actually true. Like, I think there was a thought in there somewhere. I'm not a person that always has the spirit with me. Like, that's, that's not I don't know why I thought that it's not like I was down on myself. I just didn't think that I was there that that spirit was actually helping my thoughts, my thinking all along the way. And so I just started kind of experimenting with that. And that has been a really one of the biggest lessons, I think that came out of this for me is that we are always being prompted by the Spirit, if we're allowing the Spirit in our lives in the best way we can. I'm not perfect. Sometimes I miss my scripture study. Sometimes I don't make time for the temple, right? Like, I'm just like all of you. But this spirit is like, if we're if our desire is Heavenly Father, which it is, for most of us, even in our humaneness, then the Spirit is with us. And it is helping us in our thinking of our normal thoughts that we're having. So that was like a huge learning for me.
Sara Visser 16:43
And something I'm really grateful for that's come out of that, that helps me move forward without so much hesitation and waiting. is I just keep moving, I still think it out, I decide I pray, sometimes I still get an answer. And lots of times I go, and I just go, then okay, well, then it's great. The spirits with me, and I'm doing the right thing, and I'm just gonna keep moving. So. So I'm really thankful for that experience. That seems so, so important that I get that answer, so that I could relax about it and no, no, okay. And what I really wanted Heavenly Father to tell me is like, she's not gonna die. If she didn't get on medication. We don't get that we don't get to have that knowledge. Right, then we don't have to act in faith anymore. So yeah, so that was kind of a big thing that came out of it. I'm trying to think what else did we did we do a lot, a lot, a lot of time and talking that really worked for her. I slept with her for seven months, every night just to keep her from doing things that she knew would take her down a hole, which was self harm, or whatever else was going on in her mind at the time.
Sara Visser 17:53
I think that was the right choice at the time. It's not going to work for everyone, right? Like, I feel like, as parents, we got to trust our gut. But also, there comes a time where your child is ready to take on their own health and their own decisions. And again, someone else called that out to me, and I'm super still heavily bothered continues to put people in your life at the right time. I was telling another individual about this. And they're like, oh, so what are you going to do? Like, check her shoulders? You're gonna make her take your clothes off and check her thighs? I'm like, no, no, I'm not gonna do that. Well, then why are you sleeping with her? And I was like, Oh, well, this is kind of like it felt different to me than it had before. And it made me kind of think, oh, yeah, I think we're done with this space. I think that it's time for me to change this.
Sara Visser 18:42
And along right about that time too. So it's not like things were getting better for her at this point. Along about that time, too. I also got while I was still sleeping with her, she had a bathroom in a room, got up in the night to use the restroom and had a prompt in there. Her journal was sitting there. And I just had this thought reader journal. So I opened it up and read it to find that night's she had written a suicide note. So that was a rough one. I'm not gonna lie, like I didn't. I was up the whole night. Of course, she was asleep at this point. Excuse me, and in those hours of fear and just not only terror about her life, but just seeing that she had that much pain. That's really Oh, nice to see someone you love know that. Okay, this is where she's at, and that she could be in that place in her mind. That's a lot of pain for someone. Someone who really wants to live right like you see. Yeah.
Sara Visser 19:46
So I those hours are actually kind of sacred to me. Now. I just see. We had a little pellet stove in our living room. And I turned it on was sitting in front of it and just praying, praying, praying about what to do. And that scripture kept coming to my mind scriptures kept coming to my mind about choosing faith over fear. And this is like kind of my mantra now, and it was then I can't tell you how many days I chanted literally in my head and choosing faith, choosing faith, choosing faith, over and over. And that's kind of what got me through the night is, I had to come to a point where I accepted that she literally could choose to enter life. And there was nothing I could do about that, that I literally couldn't save her.
Sara Visser 20:35
And I feel like that's where kind of everything changed for me that I could choose to be okay with whatever Heavenly Father's plan was for her. If she came to a place where she was in so much pain that she ended her life. That that was his plan, that it was not a surprise to him, that it was okay that we would survive it that, you know, that we would handle whatever came with it. And once I fully fully embraced that, it literally changed how I started showing up for her even, I was making a lot of decisions up until that point based on fear, and trying to save her. And this is also the part of the story where I, a friend recommended a podcast of a life coach, and I started listening to it. And that also really opened up my mind to this idea of what happens when we're, we're making choices based on fear. And it's never anything we're gonna like, ever. But when we can make choices based on faith, well, then how do we do that we have to literally cling to what we believe about our Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Sara Visser 21:45
Everything else is we don't know. Anything could change at any time for any one of us in the world. That never changes. It's the only thing. And so, between those podcasts and all this thinking, I came to a place where I started just trying to make choices on faith, and kind of betting on faith instead of betting on fear and what could happen. And as I did that, then I feel like that's where all of us started to get some traction in a better path. Again, that was maybe halfway through. So we still had three, three and a half years of really difficult times ahead of us. But it did change everything to just let it all go and realize I'm trying to be a savior here. And I'm never I'm not. I'm not her savior. I'm not anyone's savior. Yeah. So.
Tamara Anderson 22:36
And that's a hard thing for us to realize as parents because I think just especially his mom's we want to nurture and help our children so much. But I think you're right, we do have to reach a point, especially as they reach those adult years, that you give them to God. And say, I know you love them more powerfully imperfectly than I can. And I love him a lot. Yeah. So I'm going to trust that you've got this. Even though it's hard for us to get over that control. I don't know what else to call it. But we don't really have the couldn't Yeah, this idea, this illusion of control that oh my gosh, it's it's true. We have no control over that they Yes, gosh, I don't know about you, but most of my kids are pretty independent souls. Yes, they've got their opinions and their ideas about everything. And you know, as much as I'd like to think that I influenced them. I really think they make the wrong decisions. And there you go. So I can't take credit for their successes or their failures. Yeah, right. Just I'm just doing my best. Yes, yeah. But that's a huge milestone to come to as a parent.
Tamara Anderson 24:05
I remember actually feeling that way. You knew me and my younger years were my Jacob was a chronic escape artist. And yes, running straight into the street. And I found him on the neighbor's roof one time and getting ready to jump in the neighbor's a different neighbor's pool at another point. And, you know, he just was insane. And I remember reaching that point with God and just saying, I am doing my very best. I've even hired a nanny to help me because I just can't keep track of all my kids, especially this one who needs 24 hour supervision, or he's gonna hurt himself. And I just remember telling God from this point on, I'm just going to give this to you and if he gets hit by a car, I'm going to know that I have done everything I can, and I'm putting everything like the balls inyour court.
Sara Visser 25:00
Yes, yeah, I mean, I think you need to be watchful.
Tamara Anderson 25:02
Yes. It's not like I'm gonna stop but
Sara Visser 25:05
not superhuman. Yeah,
Tamara Anderson 25:07
I, I can't do this anymore. I'm too exhausted. I'm too worn out. I physically cannot do this anymore. And I think we have to almost reach that point as parents and and get to that point where we submit
Sara Visser 25:25
yes
Tamara Anderson 25:25
to God.
Sara Visser 25:26
Yes.
Tamara Anderson 25:27
And acknowledge okay, you're the perfect parent. I'm not.
Sara Visser 25:32
I love that word submit. Yeah.
Tamara Anderson 25:34
Anyway, that's a hard lesson to learn, though. And you usually don't learn it until you're like your own rock bottom, you know, kind of like you did that one night where you're like,
Sara Visser 25:44
Ah, nothing else would push that. You know, it's, it's the only way. That's how this earth is designed. You know? Yeah.
Tamara Anderson 25:55
We're gonna take a quick break. But when we get back, we'll have more lessons, tips and things you can apply to your life. Stay tuned. Hi, this is Tamra K. Anderson, and I want to share something special with you. When our son Nathan was diagnosed with autism, I felt like the life we had expected for him was ripped away and with it, my own heart shattered as well. It's very common for families to feel anger, pain, confusion and anxiety when a child is diagnosed. This is where my book normal for me comes into play. It shares my story of learning to replace my pain, with acceptance, peace, joy, and hope. normal for me is helped change many lives. And I'd like to give this book to as many families as possible. We've put together something I think is really special. My friends and listeners can order copies of my book and significantly discounted price. And we will send them to families who have just had a child diagnosed with autism or another special needs diagnosis. We will put your name inside the cover. So they will know someone out there loves them and wants to help. I will also sign each copy. You can order as little as one or as many as hundreds to be shared with others. So go to my website Tamra K. Anderson comm and visit the store section for more information and to place your order. You can bless the lives of many families by sending them hope, love and peace. Check it out today at Tamarak Anderson.com and help me spread hope to the world.
Sara Visser 27:38
I feel like one of the other big turning points for me. And I kind of walked the line on this I didn't ever get like super down on myself. Like we didn't do enough. I wasn't aware enough, which should have seen it sooner. Like I was kind of okay with that. Because I felt like like I'm all in as a parent. Right? So yeah, so I but there when she actually left the church and decided to move in with her boyfriend at the time. That one was tough. For me. That was another like, really, really painful time. And we moved during that time. And they actually decided to move with us before they moved in together and to another state. And they we just decided like early on that she decided to leave the church. Another friend told us this, a mutual friend of ours told us at that point who had had some kids leave without school. Say she said you know, I just told my kids, you can leave the church, but you can't leave our family. And that kind of became our mantra.
Sara Visser 28:39
And John and I would have a lot of conversation about what does that look like? If we truly believe she has the agency to leave the church, she gets to choose that if she wants. It's her it's her privilege to choose that. This took a lot of talking to get to this point. So easy. It was not up. Yeah. Then what does this look like in our family? And how do we can like she's going off to college? How do we support her? Will it look different than what we did for other kids? Will it not? I don't anyway, we had all these different conversations. So it comes so we really felt like if she's part of our family, and she's part of our family, all of them, right? And I'm not really going to change what I'm saying or doing. She doesn't have to change what she's saying or doing. It's all good. So and we went through all this stuff about younger siblings being on the front row of this and it does affect them. It's okay. It's all part of the plan.
Sara Visser 29:34
So, but the day we moved them in, I held it together, helped them set up their bed the whole bit. We're just moving them in together. But when we left I fell apart. I was just crying, crying crying another one of those. There was a thought in my mind, like when you cross this bridge, you can't come back from this, which is not true. So not true. But that's where I was In that moment, and then I had a lot of thoughts of like, did we do enough? You know that she would turn away from everything that we know can bring her happiness and joy long term? Where did where did I miss? What teaching did I miss? You know, if there had been more I could do. And remember, I was out walking, maybe a week later and really suffering internally, just so sad about all of this grieving. It's really grieving. And I just have this understanding, sometimes Heavenly father. So he talks to me, sometimes I just have an understanding where I just know and understand something, and I know it's from him. And it was just the I had this understanding of that, as parents, were literally supposed to mess up our child's in a way, our child our children in a way that were, we were never supposed to be perfect parents. And he also reminded me like I just started thinking in my mind, like, have I been "all in" this whole time with Heavenly Father? Like, has my intention been 100%? The whole time? Yes, I can stay I like have this is my thinking. Yes, I know, I can stand before Heavenly Father today right now and say, Never at One time was my intention? Not 100%? Did we always get family home evening in? No. Did we always have pair every morning every night? That armor everyday? No. But my intention was always 100% that never lacked, it never, never failed. And so then what does that mean? If our intention was always there, 100% Well, then it means that everything is great. It's all good, it's enough.
Sara Visser 31:38
And that was such a blessing to me at that time to be able to let go of that pain. of maybe I could have done something different. Maybe I could have. But that was never Heavenly Father's plan. Or I would have felt or thought or learned something at a different time than what I did. And that was just a really huge turning point for me to to continue to move through the grieving, which I think is important. And not get stuck in it. But just to continue to allow all of that to happen without shame and guilt. Because then that that's not Heavenly Father's plan for us. That's not how we grow. We never grow from shame or guilt, no, well from standing and acceptance and trust and faith. That's when we move forward. So I was really grateful for that experience. Also, just that realization that we don't have to be perfect, but that was never the plan to be a perfect parent. It wasn't.
Tamara Anderson 32:35
Obviously, it was interesting, as you were telling that story, I was just thinking. So God is your daughter's parent, you know, but he's also your parent. And that we're each broken in our own way. And he's with each of us on our unique journey. And he doesn't want you to suffer more than you need to. And he doesn't want your daughter to suffer more than she needs to. And he doesn't want any of his kids to suffer more than they need to end. And so it's it's up to it's between them. And God I love the parable of the prodigal son, you know that as soon as that young man turned towards home from a faraway off, his father saw him. He was always watching, always waiting. And it's, it's up to us to finally hit that point where we come to Him and in our brokenness and just say I need help. I'm struggling with guilt. I'm struggling with anxiety about being a mom about being a parent about that. I feel I haven't done enough. And you having that realization. I'm the perfect parent. You don't have to be you know, kind of that. Yes. Oh, so really? Is that how that works? Sure. I never knew that before. Yes, but we have these aha moments where like, Oh,
Sara Visser 34:02
okay. Exactly. And sometimes, like another little part to that, that, you know, you get all these pieces along the way, right. Feeling like there's gotta be more I'm supposed to do. There's God like I was desperate, almost frantic, thinking What should I do today? What should I do? It's got to be something else that can say it's got to be another something scripture blessing what? And heavenly father taught me that sometimes there's nothing else I'm supposed to do. That was so foreign to me. I'm like, pretty self contained and motivated and like can make things happen. Right? And that was like a really huge little switch in my mind. But like, I know that like I love that scripture be still. Then we just have to trust like, sometimes there's nothing else we're supposed to do. He's got it. He's got things working out there that we can't even see that he's weaving together. And that might be years from now, that might be a month from now who knows? But it's happening like we can trust in that. And sometimes we can just know, oh, just be still there's nothing else I'm supposed to do. And he'll reaffirm that, like I have faith in that, that it will maybe open up to the idea that there's nothing else we're supposed to do that we're doing the right things. Like, he'll he'll reaffirm that to us. We'll feel that little peace with that thought that helps us know, like, okay, we can let go.
Tamara Anderson 35:28
Hmm, not let go and let God idea right. It is, it is so hard to do, especially when you're in that moment where it's life and death. Right? To say, okay, all right. It takes trust and faith to a whole different level. Yeah. When it's when what we want we have to lay on that altar. Yes, say
Sara Visser 35:56
this. Okay, maybe I'm not right here. That was another big thing. Before this. I would have always got no, it's not okay to for someone to go live with someone. No! It's not really Father's plan. Mm hmm. I'm gonna just throw out the idea that maybe sometimes it's his plan. Because he wants to suffer and have pain? No. But does he? Are we here to learn? Yes. And now my daughter's come back to us come back, whatever you want to call it, come back to herself through her own testimony to her own thoughts and feelings about heavenly Father. And I don't think she could have if she hadn't fully left. I never would have thought that was true before. Ever. But for her, I'm not sure she could have ever been all in.
Tamara Anderson 36:42
I think God respects each of us enough to let us choose our own path. And sometimes that looks a little nuts. It's a little backwards and sideways and all over the place. And the crazy thing is he loves us and stands by us through it all. And is there watching and waiting? As soon as we're like, yes. Maybe I'll go back home. Yeah, I've had enough of this wallowing in the mud and eating the food that swines eat. I think it's time for me to go home. You know, we have to "come to ourselves," as it says in that parable, and make make that decision ourselves. And I've talked to other people on this podcast who have had family members in addictions and stuff. And it's the same thing. You can't fix them, they have to come to a point where they make the decision. Okay, I want the therapy. Okay, I am going to check myself into the treatment program, not because you did it for me, they have to come to that point themselves.
Sara Visser 37:48
Yeah, before it will ever be truly effective. Yeah. And gosh, don't we learn so much about agency, I thought I understood agency, I wouldn't, I couldn't given a talk without agency before all this right. But that talk looks so different now than it did before. And one of the big things and I'll be careful how I word this, because I hope you'll get my meaning. When I say this, I had a thought one day like how agency even trump's the atonement. And what I mean by that is Heavenly father doesn't like the Atonement is all powerful, and is there for anyone who wants it. And we have to choose if we're going to accept what the atonement can offer us. Like our agency, is everything he's given us. And that really actually helped me in all of this and allowing her to take her path and keep her part of our family and someone that we love and cherish. And we're close to that idea that that that is just as sacred as the atonement, our agency, it's really was a different way of thinking for me about a matter agency and has opened me up to love in a different way.
Sara Visser 38:59
Not just her but lots of people, I was talking about my youth calling. I had never served in the youth in all of my years of being a member until just about three, four years ago, and was so afraid to be in the youth, I thought it would be so scary and that I wouldn't be able to help them. And I don't know, I just thought about the drama and everything that happens. And I feel like all of these experiences have opened me up that even just respecting them is respecting their agency and who they're becoming and how they want to walk that path and become it's all up to them. We need to have some influence and we get to invite and we get to love.
Tamara Anderson 39:35
Yeah, that really is it you're you've actually hit on it. And the rest is their own journey. I remember reading a book on gratitude. Probably about a year ago now. And and in this book on gratitude. It talks about being grateful not only for our situation and all the good but also all the bad That has happened to us in our life. And I remember after reading this book, I knelt down and I had probably one of the most heartfelt, crying filled prayers I think I've ever uttered. And I've had heard a lot of those through my years. But it was one where I started from as early as I can remember. And I thanked God for all of the challenges I've had in my life. And then I think, thanked him for the challenges in each of my children's lives. And that was really hard to do. But part of that prayer was, and thank you for this child's challenge with this specific thing. Because this is their journey, and I'm thankful for it because I know eventually it will lead them back to you.
Tamara Anderson 40:48
And that was one of the hardest prayers I think I've ever uttered. But one of gratitude, but I felt, at the end of it, I felt almost like God was hugging me and just saying, Tamara, it's okay. That's exactly the approach you need to take. It's gratitude for the good, but it's also gratitude for those awful hard things, not only yours, but your children's. And I don't think I could have said that prayer five years ago. You know, yeah, I wasn't at the point where I was. And I'm still not entirely grateful for a lot of things that I'm going through. But, but just that, that whole experience, kind of expanded my vision and my view that even these hard things work together for our good. And they're part of my journey, they're part of your journey, they're part of your daughter's journey.
Sara Visser 41:46
The only way that literally, we can find hope. So I'm a huge proponent of light, which equates with hope, right, kind of the same thing. I use the word light, maybe use the word hope. But I feel like these understandings are what allow us to find that peace, that hope, have that light still in our life, so that it's not a pitch black. When we're in those difficult times, and having those those again, I feel like it's so important. Something I encourage them to like coaching is to write down literally write down, not just have it in your head, but literally write down what you believe at your deepest, deepest core. What do you believe in? For me, that kind of looks something along the lines of, I believe that my Heavenly Father is all knowing, and that he's always working out in front of me to make everything happen for my good and the good of those I love.
Sara Visser 42:40
Okay, if I believe that, then that allows me to have just a little bit of hope in those really hard times, which are also a struggle, right? Like, we have to relearn it every single time we have a new difficulty, or reoccurring difficulty, yes, we have to reapply the faith, the learning all those things. But I feel like really getting really strong and deep on what we believe. It's really the only way, the only way to move through something in a healthy way. Instead of fighting stick, you know, being stuck pushing back in that that instant darkness that comes inside of us when we're doing that instead of turning to what we believe.
Tamara Anderson 43:25
Yeah, oh, I love that idea. It's, it's, it goes back to that choose faith over fear concept. If you if you know what you believe. Then then you got to cling to that, especially in
Sara Visser 43:41
those so when I say 1000s of pounds in my head and choosing fate to them choosing faith right now I'm choosing faith. Like literally my daughter would call me from seminary or the school on the bathroom floor. Sobbing please come and get me. And I had had the thought like we considered homeschool, all these different things, you know, we considered all the things and had felt like she had to do it. She had to do it or she would get stuck in this place. And so she's begging me to come pick her up. I can't tell you how many times I prayed and said Do I get her today or not? And sometimes I felt like I should go getter. And sometimes I felt like not. Those were the days I had to clean.
Tamara Anderson 44:20
Okay, God getter. Yeah.
Sara Visser 44:24
But I knew that my father was telling me Nope, she needs to stay today. So along with that, like that care, that constant care He's giving us it's not like I felt that every day. I want to be really realistic about that because it's easy to hear someone else's story and think Heavenly Father is not a part of my story so much easier as I look back to see all the ways he was a part of my story. And I hit a point during all that I started praying. Please let me see how you're a part of this. Let me see your hand. I know you're here. Just not seeing it because I'm in the thick of it and it's painful and hard and all of that. But I just also have a huge testimony that There are a lot of angels surrounding us. And even our kids when we can't be there, like I couldn't be with her every second of the day, it's impossible. Like you were saying, but Jacob, you literally can't keep him safe. 24/7 No, he's gonna get away sometimes.
Tamara Anderson 45:16
He Oh, he did.
Sara Visser 45:19
So I have such a strong like, I think that one of the things that we can find some power in, is remembering that it's not just me fighting this battle for this child. It's not just my husband fighting this battle for this child. Heavenly Father, of course, Jesus Christ, of course, and our loved ones who know and love them who have passed on. I bet we had some really one particular night she has shared since then didn't know this, then sure would have loved it. If she told me it's been a lot since that has helped make sense of a lot of things. But she told me and my mom had passed away, maybe 13 years before this time. And she told me there was one night where she knew that she was there, helping her to not die. And I was asleep in the bed in the room, didn't know that she was at that point at that night at that time. And we father knew, and he allowed my mom to be there. She didn't see her anything like that. But she knew it was her. And she knew that she was holding her kind of. There's so much power that we can turn to in those moments. And we could choose to think about those things instead of our fear, which is just as real if we it's like that story of which Wolf, do you feed? You know, we just have to stay, we have to constantly choose to what we believe.
Tamara Anderson 46:44
Yeah. I absolutely love that. That is so true. And I've I've had Angel moments as well. And it's usually in the darkest part of the night when they come. And maybe it's just the darkest part of your story. But that when no one else is there, God is always there. Right? He will send heavenly angels to be with and comfort you. And it's comforting to know that. And to keep believing that, because like you said, we can't control so much. I don't know why we try. I know
Sara Visser 47:28
it's part of human nature, right? We wouldn't have to act in faith if we didn't also have that desire to control and to be in charge of it and be able to manipulate it like yeah, I don't know. And I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have to act in faith without that. Yeah, another thing. I just again, like I know, some kids commit suicide, and that is their story. And I literally want to say right now like I can imagine what that would feel like as a parent or a loved one of a friend of someone who ends up taking that path. But in my journey of knowing that that was a possibility, and accepting that that could happen. I just gained so much compassion for the person that actually is in that moment of deciding if they're going to continue to leave live or not. And the place they come to in their mind, the pain that they must experience has made me just have love and empathy for those who have that be part of their story. And I hope that is someone hearing this that has maybe had a loved one who ended up passing on in that way that they can hear my love for them and also our Savior and only Father's love for them and their child or loved one whomever it might be. It doesn't change their greatness. It doesn't change their story or their path or their eternities ahead of them can really trust their father. And he must love them so much and welcome them home so readily.
Tamara Anderson 49:08
Oh, and we've talked about that on my podcast too hard. I can't imagine being in that place. But I've also talked to people who've had children or loved ones commit suicide and one sweet mother told the story of her daughter who she just even though her her pastor said I can't. She said please tell me she's with Jesus. He says, I don't know. So she just prayed and prayed and prayed and she says, Please tell me you got her. And she felt peace. And so she says, I know Jesus has her. And that is what keeps me going, you know? So it's it's a hard play. To be in, as a parent who loves so deeply, right? And who wants to ferry best life for our kids, you know. And I can only think that if I being a mortal parent feel that way that God being immortal and perfect parent wants the very best for us and will help us in his own timing and ways. I had one other guests come on once and talk about her mother, who, who became addicted to Oxy codon and spiraled into other addictions as well. And when she finally died, the answer she got was, I'm still with her on her journey. You know, from God, that was the answer she got. Because she felt like everything was lost. And, and so it's comforting to know that God loves each of us enough that he's with us on our journey from before we were born, clear through till when we'll finally get resurrected, perfect bodies, you know? Yes, he's with each of us on that journey. And it's going to look unique and different for each of us.
Sara Visser 51:16
Yeah. And I think it's easy to this. Is that where you're talking a little bit at the beginning about comparison? I think it's easy to compare at this point, even with my story with my daughter. Well, how come Heavenly Father didn't send one of our loved ones to stop them from committing suicide? I don't know. I don't have the answer for that. But I promise you that Emily father does. Yeah, God does. Yeah. And I don't know.
Tamara Anderson 51:41
Yeah. And I don't know either. Just that if we trust that God, is that all knowing perfect God, yes. Then someday, we will know and understand. Yes. Right. Someday we'll have that answer. And it might not be until the next line. Yes, yeah. And that's awful and hard. You're like, I want the answer. Now. I live in this instance, society. I want my answer. Now. Thank you very much.
Sara Visser 52:08
What if we can let go of needing to know by always going back to what we believe. For me if I believe that Heavenly Father is all knowing, and is always not just sometimes, but always out in front of me working for my good and the people I love? Then maybe suicide is part of that sometimes. I don't know. Like, I feel like maybe we can have peace in this life without the understanding.
Tamara Anderson 52:38
Hmm. That's true. And maybe that's, and maybe that's what we need to seek for. Seek for the peace. Seek for the peace until the understanding comes. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, that's powerful. Wow, this has been so powerful. Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your amazing journey. And a little bit of your daughter's journey as well. It's it's a blessing that God worked with her in her own way in her own time, and has gently brought her back to the fold. As she was ready. Yeah, yeah. Tell me has there been a Bible verse that has become particularly meaningful to you through that through all of this?
Sara Visser 53:27
Okay. Yes. Joshua, one, nine. And mostly just one phrase in this, but have I not commanded thee be strong and have a good courage, be not afraid? Me there be that as made for the Lord thy God is with the weather so ever that ghost, of course, you've heard what I believe at the deepest core and the Scripture dust, who really talks to me in that way. And just that idea of not being afraid, which then the opposite of that is choosing faith as the other option. And this, again, just really, really spoke to me and helped me in those times where I was struggling to cling to that, where the pain was trying to outdo the faith. And that when I concentrated and focused on these kinds of scriptures and thoughts, then the faith was able to come in and out do the pain, even though it was still there.
Tamara Anderson 54:26
Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. Now, you've mentioned several resources through all this being choose therapists for help along the way, don't be afraid to open up and talk to friends. Are there any other resources obviously God? Yes, giving it all to God and His Yes, number one resource right there. But are there any other resources that you've found that you would recommend to parents and and don't be, don't be afraid also to plug yourself there, you know, because this is what you do.
Sara Visser 55:03
Yeah. Okay, me, a great resource I can help you. This is I eventually ended up becoming a life coach. And my whole niche in life coaching is focusing on helping parents whose kids are in crisis, any kind of practice, the tools and things that helped me get to where I got to, to be able to cope, ended up helping my child when I quit making decisions based on fear. When I quit, being frantic. All of that changed everything. I just, I can't say that enough. So I would love to help anyone that I possibly could. It's it's really become my addiction, my own addiction. I don't want to cook or clean or take kids places, I just really want to help people. But the suffering in life is optional. That's what I'm going to throw out there. Pain is not optional. It is a part of this life. And it's a really important part of this life. But does the suffering is optional. And that's what we have to kind of get our heads around.
Sara Visser 56:05
Secondly, another huge resource to us during this time this another friend told me about is how to hug a teenage porcupine. The author speaker is John L. Lund. But I've probably listened to these seven or eight times, not just once. And I've given them to so many friends and they've had the same experiences. My husband has listened to them multiple times. It changed everything for us. It opened up the ideas of the pre existence clear through eternity, and our parenting role in such a way that I can't do it justice. If you don't do anything from this talk do that. It's on desert bookshelf. If you have a desert bookshelf, you can download it Muslim easily there. But you can also buy the CDs and put them on your computer or something. And then also, in that time, I went to a timeout for women. And Michael McLean was there and told his story of where he had a faith crisis. And it was brilliant. And I think it's available just on YouTube. Now I'm not sure but you could Google that. And Michael McLean faith crisis, beautiful, absolutely beautiful and gave me a lot of hope, and, and some things to really talk about with my daughter, too, that I think helped her.
Tamara Anderson 57:19
Oh, that's fantastic. We will be sure to link all these things in your show notes. But, but you didn't tell us where to find you. So please tell us your website.
Sara Visser 57:29
Okay, my website is findhopecoaching.com. And also, probably the best way to get a hold of me is just to email me at findhopecoaching@gmail.com.
Tamara Anderson 57:42
Awesome. No, that's fantastic. And because I know that there gonna be people out there who go off, I need to talk to Sarah, she gets my problems that I'm dealing with right now. And it sometimes it does help to just have somebody who has been there and done that. Maybe not your exact, perfect problem, but someone who has felt that level of grief and that level of sorrow over fear. Yes, exactly. We're talking about
Sara Visser 58:09
here, if you're in the middle of it, you don't have to suffer.
Tamara Anderson 58:13
I love how you said that. Pain is part of life. But suffering is optional. And I don't think I realized that.
Sara Visser 58:22
I didn't realize that before this fine before I got some tools and some help from my own self. And that's another thing. When someone we love is in crisis and struggling, the focus, and mostly rightly, all goes on them even like from your other kids and whatever, I had a lot of thoughts about that, that I had to deal with. And but we can't forget that we have to fill our own cup, we have to take care of ourselves. Because then we have so much more to give. That just reminded me in that struggle of thinking about my other kids. And literally we were all just trying to keep her daughter alive, my husband and I. So at that point, I had little tiny still had other little kids who were not teenagers and and they paid a price to who they really did. And Heavenly father was there and that too.
Sara Visser 59:10
At the right time I saw so clearly one of my children was suffering outside of my own noticing. Like, I can't tell you how much heavenly father works. You wish he would work every day like this right? And then it would be easy. But in those moments that really are crucial that we're not seeing, he'll help us see it if we're turning to him and and I was able to tell her if this is helpful to anyone I was able to explain to her kind of almost like your background picture there. If we were standing on a cliff, and your sister was at the edge of the cliff leaning over reaching out and there's a fence and we're on the other side of the fence sitting on a bench watching her that's where you are telling us to the sister. Where do you think I should be? And do you think I should be sitting on the bench with you or do you think that I should be grabbing her and pulling her back? And she's like, No, you should be grabbing her Reporting her back. And we were able to talk about how there are times in a family that all the focus goes on one person. And that's why we're here. That's why we're a family. And it helped her work through some of the things that she was experiencing. And this was pretty much at the end of the data, the other daughter stuff like this has been going on for a long time that had created some things for her that were difficult. So anyway, that's just another little throw out there might be helpful. It's another thing that I really thought they got me through is sacred privilege to be someone's safe place. That's beautiful.
Tamara Anderson 1:00:31
Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's show. If you liked what you heard, subscribe so you can get your weekly dose of powerful stories of hope. I know there are many of you out there who are going through a hard time, and I hope you found useful things that you can apply to your own life in today's podcast. If you'd like to access the show notes of today's show, please visit my website stories of hope podcast.com. There you will find a summary of today's show, the transcript and one of my favorite takeaways. You know, if someone kept coming to mind during today's episode, perhaps that means that you should share this episode with them. Maybe there was a story shared or quote, or a scripture verse that they really, really need to hear. So go ahead and share this podcast. May God bless you, especially if you are struggling with hope to carry on and the strength to keep going when things get tough. Remember to walk with Christ and He will help you bear the burden. And above all else, remember, God loves you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai