Julianne Donaldson: How I Turned My Throw-Away Soul into My True Self
Julianne Donaldson never thought she would struggle with depression or go through a divorce. But, she clung to God to help her find her true self amidst her darkest moments and wrote a beautiful new book, "Come Sweet Day: Holding On to Hope in Dark Times.”
Episode Discussion Points
Favorite place she has ever lived was Germany and she has a huge bucket list of places she wants to still visit and things she wants to do.
Going from normal busy young family to looking to get a divorce in the matter of a year or so.
Confronting the idea that you “never put kids through a divorce” and the hard question, “At what point is staying worse than leaving?”
When the decision became divorce or suicide because she felt like the fate of the family was resting on her shoulders
The answer Julianne received from God when she felt so burdened
How she moved from feeling worthless to loved
How trusting God helped deliver her, and how God walked that road with her.
How both staying in her marriage and leaving her marriage she did “for the sake of her kids” and she let her love for them and hope for them pull her forward.
She had to be unshakable in her conviction to divorce because so many people tried to dissuade her. But she knew what God told her it was right for her.
Why it is so important to support people in their choices and decisions when they are making them with God’s help.
The amazing book of heartfelt poetry Julianne wrote called, “Come, Sweet Day: Holding on to Hope in Dark Times.”
In her Harry Potter room under the stairs, she had an epiphany as she read a scripture that told her to stand up and take her chains off and get up out of the dirt.
Why noticing small and large details in nature helped Julianne feel God’s love when she was feeling lonely.
What Julianne did when she felt like the devil had grabbed her by the ankles
Taking time to talk to God about everything
Being patient and courageous during the long waiting period while you are healing
Struggling with depression, hope and optimism don’t come naturally to Julianne, but she discovered that both hope and optimism are a choice. They are also like a muscle that you can work on every day.
How sometimes she just had to hold still and let the world wash by because it was all she could do to hold her spot.
Why it is important to remember spiritual experiences when you are feeling down.
Use all the tools in your toolbox to keep you from sinking into depression: therapy, medication, exercise, journaling, meditation, praying, connecting with God or someone she loves, etc.
How Julianne starts each day: Listing 3 things in her journal she is grateful for and 3 things she is excited for. This helps her start her day off in a positive way.
15-second hug time!
My Favorite Julianne Quotes from the Podcast Episode
“There is no life plan that is one size fits all.”
“God loves us enough to rearrange heaven and earth for us to show us His love.”
“I can practice hope so my hope becomes more and more buoyant.”
4 Tips to Rebuilding Worth
Find a good therapist who can help sort through the lies and find the truth.
Connect with God in a quiet place (Julianne had her Harry Potter room under the stairs).
Unpacking a lot of pain to figure out why she had lost her self and allowing healing into her life.
Making a list of her “True Self” characteristics like “I’m joyous” and reminding herself of them frequently.
Connect with Julianne Donaldson
Website: https://www.juliannedonaldson.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorJulianne
Instagram: @writerJulianne
Buy Julianne’s new book, “Come, Sweet Day: Holding on to Hope in Dark Times” on Amazon or at your favorite book store.
#tamarakanderson #storiesofhopeinhardtimes #podcast #hope #God #hardtimes #depression #selfworth #divorce #connection #optimism #therapy #newbook #juliannedonaldson #author #comesweetday
Transcription
You can find the transcription of today's episode here:
Julianne 0:02
I was able to just take some alone time, like it was just me and God for a couple of months. I had a little closet under the stairs that we called the Harry Potter room.
Tamara Anderson 0:14
I love that.
Julianne 0:15
And it became my little sanctuary. I had my scriptures in there. I went in there several times a day to pray, and to read, and to really communicate with God. And I was just like, “What do I do with these feelings of not being worth anything?”
Tamara Anderson 0:37
Welcome to Stories of Hope in Hard Times, the show that explores how people endure and even thrive in difficult times, all with God's help. I'm your host, Tamara K. Anderson. Join me on a journey to find inspiring stories of hope and wisdom learned in life's hardest moments.
My guest today grew up all over the world as the daughter of a United States Air Force pilot. As a result, she has a severe case of wanderlust and frequently dreams of living abroad again. Until her dream is realized, she lives in Utah where she spends most of her time raising her five children. Her novels, “Edenbrooke,” and “Blackmore,” have been translated into 15 different languages and have won numerous awards. I am pleased to present Julianne Donaldson. Julianne, are you ready to share your story of hope?
Julianne 1:36
I am, Tamara. Thanks so much for having me with you.
Tamara Anderson 1:40
Oh, this is gonna be so fun. So I have to ask the question. Since you grew up all over the world, what was one of the favorite places that you lived?
Julianne 1:51
Definitely Germany. I don't think you can get a better abroad experience than living in Germany. So we were there from ‘86 to ‘89. I was a teenager. We got to see so much of Europe and to experience so many different cultures. I even was able to visit Berlin before the wall came down. It was just life-changing. It really opened my eyes to a much bigger world, outside of my own culture, and just really gave me a, like I said, like a severe case of wanderlust. Always, always, always wanting to travel and see new places.
Tamara Anderson 2:37
Okay, so what is on your bucket list of places to visit still?
Julianne 2:42
There's a lot. We could talk all day about the bucket list.
Tamara Anderson 2:48
Right?
Julianne 2:49
Yeah. So like, I've never been to Italy. I've never even actually been to Hawaii. I haven't been anywhere tropical. That's wrong. I lived in the Philippines. So that's very hot. But most of my travels have been in the Northern Hemisphere, but not from my bucket list. I love to have things to do in places. So for example, I want to see the Northern Lights in Iceland. There's this biking trail in England, like Northern England, and it goes from the Irish Sea to the Channel. And it goes from like Manchester. And you can get on this biking trail and bike all across the peaks and the dales and the moors. And there's little inns that you stopped at along the way to stay overnight. And that's been a big dream. In fact, I have a little a little indoor bike that I ride regularly to train for my bike trip across England someday.
Tamara Anderson 4:02
Oh, my word girl. Okay, you're gonna have to tell me when you do that trip. Might want to sneak into your suitcase or something. I've been to England once and I absolutely loved it. I think one of my favorite things was my mother-in-law. We went with my in-laws. And my mother-in-law wanted to go see the thatched roof cottages. Yeah, and it was so amazing. I'm like, people still have thatched roof cottages in England. They do, like entire towns of them and it just blew my mind. I'm like, wow. So it was kind of fun. It's so cool. Anyway, gives you more stuff for future books, right?
Julianne 4:44
Well, and that's the perfect excuse to travel. I can just say, “I'm going to write a book about this. It's a business expense.”
Tamara Anderson 4:52
That's exactly right. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. That sounds so fun. So even though you can't travel all the time, you've got to deal with real life. And we're gonna dive into a little bit of your real life today. So let's go back a couple of years to when life started to perhaps go from looking halfway normal to unraveling a little bit. So tell us what normal looked like and how it started to unravel for you.
Julianne 5:25
Okay, so 2015, I think was the last time life felt normal.
Tamara Anderson 5:31
Wow.
Julianne 5:32
Um, it's been a while. So, normal was, you know, I had a husband who was an attorney and an active member of our church, our congregation. In fact, he had a leadership position in our congregation. And I had five kids. I had four kids that I had planned, and then I had a surprise caboose six years after the fourth. We were doing the busy, happy, young family thing. I was working on my career as an author and supporting my husband in his career. And things took a turn. It's strange when things take a turn. You think, like, “Okay, we've established a family and we're on this path that I want us to be on.” And things changed. By the end of 2016, I was looking for a divorce attorney. And things got so bad, that, you know, I had to confront this idea that I had never confronted before. Because I had this real, like, black and white thinking about marriage and divorce. And it was, “You don't put your kids through a divorce. You do everything you can to keep your kids from divorce.” And I really had to face the question of “At what point is staying worse for them than leaving?”
I had a good friend, who really helped me see it. She has known me, and had known my ex for 10 years. And I called her and I said, “You know, I feel like, I should not live anymore. I feel like everyone would be better off without me.” And she said, What's keeping you there, that you're so unhappy, that you feel like you should kill yourself? What's keeping you there?” And I said, “I've just been so committed to never putting my kids through the experience of a divorce.” And she says, “Well, I think kids can get through a divorce, but I don't think they ever get over a parent killing themselves. So if that's really what you're considering, don't do that.” In terms of giving my all, I'd given my all to the point where I was no longer worth saving. I had to come to terms with this idea that like, no one asked me to put myself on an altar. God didn't. The world didn't. The expectations of marriage even, doesn't ask me to lay myself on an altar and be willing to give up my life for the sake of this marriage that was so wrong.
Tamara Anderson 8:59
Mm hmm. Wow. It's hard to realize that sometimes. We feel so broken that we hit that, I don't know what else to call it, besides rock bottom, you know, where you just feel I can't possibly sink any lower than I am right now. Right? You know, it's almost like you want to give up on yourself like you were just describing there. What was your conversation with God like at that lowest point of your life?
Julianne 9:36
Well, I actually had a couple of really sweet, personal, spiritual experiences at that time. So I guess I should give you a little a little background like at that point. My husband was completely consumed with his own career. My kids, all the different ages, and even having a baby, and all that went into raising them on my own. Then I also had so much pressure to help provide for the family with my writing. We had bought a new house and over extended ourselves, and didn't think about taxes that I needed to pay on my writing royalty, and everything felt like it was resting on me. Like the fate of the family, my children, raising my children, providing for my children, and supporting my husband were all just the heaviest weight on my shoulders. And I felt like, you know, like, I was really sinking beneath this weight.
I had one morning when I woke up early and just laid in bed. I was just talking to God. I was like, “How am I going to get out of this awful situation that I'm in right now? With all this debt and all this really unhealthy relationship going on in my marriage and everything else, like, all the pressures of my career. How am I going to get out of this?” I had this thought come to me. It was, “’I will reveal the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord. Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” And it was slightly different from the scripture. So it's Jeremiah 29:11. So the scripture is for, “I know the plans I have for you.” And what was given to me in that moment was, “I will reveal the plans I have for you.” And that was like a gift, how it just came into my mind. And I just went and I printed it up on a little poster that I got framed, and I hung it in my house. And I just kept reading it every day. I'd walk by and read it 10 or 20 times. I didn't know what that plan was. He said, “I would reveal it.” But like, it doesn't look like He was revealing it because things were just getting worse, and worse, and worse at home.
So I had another experience where I was just praying to God. This is language I came up with on my own, but I felt like I was a throwaway soul. I felt like I was a placeholder, like I'm a generational placeholder, where I was making the connection between my parents and my children, between these two generations. And I didn't have any worth myself. I was just there to keep my kids happy and to keep my husband happy. And it didn't matter if I was happy. And some of that was due to like, cultural ideas about a woman's place and a woman's responsibility. And some of it was just messages that I was being given in in my marriage.
Tamara Anderson 13:43
Can I just ask you a question about that? Because I think that is something that we as women… I know it's not just women, and I know a lot of men struggle with that as well, those feelings of, like, a complete lack of self-worth, that I have value. And sometimes it is people throwing that message at us. But how do you recover from something like that? How do you build up self-worth when you feel you are worthless? Well, let me ask you this, how did you do it?
Julianne 14:22
Well, the first thing I did was I found a really good therapist who helped me sort through the lies. They helped me find some truth for myself and really helped me get some clarity on what I was dealing with. So that was the first thing that was really helpful. And then the second thing that was really helpful was you know, once she kind of took away the power of the lies that I had been told, then I was able to just take some alone time. Like it was just me and God. For a couple months, I had a little closet under the stairs that we call the Harry Potter room.
Tamara Anderson 15:05
I love that.
Julianne 15:07
And it became my little sanctuary. I had my scriptures in there. I went in there several times a day to pray, and to read, and to really communicate with God. And I was just like, just trying to know, what do I do with these feelings of not being worth anything?
I actually read this scripture, you know, He's talking to Jerusalem, you know, but He says, “Stand up, get out of the dirt, and take off the chains around your neck, and stand up, oh, daughter of Zion.” Stand up. I just felt like he was telling me, like, “You don't belong where you've been put, or where you think you have to be. You don't belong down in the dirt, feeling terrible about yourself. Take those chains off. Everything that's binding you down and making you feel like you're worthless, take them off and stand up, and claim your place. Claim your place as a daughter, or, you know, as a child of God.” Having that, you know, just those two months of that intense, personal communication with God helped me so much. I really started to come back to a sense of who I was, and who I always was, you know, like, my real eternal nature. I also felt His love, you know, that He wasn't asking me to stay and keep putting myself on an altar to be, you know, sacrifice for the sake of the family. Like He actually, really loves me.
Tamara Anderson 16:56
He loved you for you. That is beautiful and powerful. Now, what statements did you begin telling yourself as part of this therapy, I guess you would say, that helped remind you of your self-worth? Did you make a list, or did you just say a new one to yourself whenever you thought of it? What did that look like? I'm curious, because I know that I've had to remind myself of things like with power statements, or mission statements, or stuff like that, that I say frequently. Is that what it looked like for you? What did you do?
Julianne 17:38
Well, I definitely had, you know, I had work that I was doing with my therapist. I did have, like, a list of who I really am. So, it's surprising how difficult that was to know. Because I had been, you know, I'd been lied to, I had been manipulated. And so I was like, “Okay, I have to come back to my true self.” And so I made, “True self,” kind of my go to phrase. Like, “Who am I really, inside?” I also started picturing myself. Because I think that I felt like my true self wasn't someone worth loving. But then I started picturing myself as like a five-year-old version of me. I would just talk to that five-year-old version of myself. And I would even call myself by name, when I was imagining that little five year old girl. “Oh, Julie, you tried so hard today. I'm so proud of you.”
Tamara Anderson 18:50
I love that. But you got to start somewhere, right? Oh, that's awesome. So did you then make a list of your true self-characteristics, or worth, or value?
Julianne 19:11
Yeah, I made a list. And I was wrong. I was surprised by how long it was.
Tamara Anderson 19:20
Can you give me an example of a couple of the things that you reminded yourself of?
Julianne 19:26
I'm joyous. I like to spontaneously dance. I like to like make up songs and sing them to my kids.
Tamara Anderson 19:39
I love that. In the car the other day, about a month ago on a family trip, I thought my daughter was gonna die. She's like, “Mom, what is this crazy song you're making up?” I’m like, “Join in!” She's like, looking at me like… Oh, it's funny, that is awesome. I love that you made this list. I love that you said it to yourself. And here's the question: Did it work?
Julianne 20:15
Yes, it did, it worked. And I was able to come back to a sense of who I was. And I was able to come back to a sense of being worthwhile and worthy of love. And, you know, it was hard. It was hard work. It was unpacking a lot of pain to go down that road and think about why I had lost myself. And there was a lot of healing that had to happen along the way.
But I did feel, really, I felt like people came into my life at the time they needed to come. I mean, that therapist was a gift. She gave me the tools that I needed to really see what was going on, and to feel capable of changing. And the other thing was, you know, if it had been possible to save my marriage, I would have. But she helped me to see that, like, “Oh, you've tried. It's been 17 years that you've been trying this.” There are some things that don't change in life. There are some things that like, it doesn't matter how hard you try, it doesn't change. When I finally was able to accept that, then I felt God saying, “I'm going to deliver you now. You've been in captivity, and now I'm going to deliver you.” It was the scariest thing to consider leaving. I mean, just terrifying for me. But not only did I feel like He would deliver me, I felt like He wanted to deliver me. And when I went back and asked, you know, “Maybe in a few years. Could I put this off for a few years? I have a two year old. Maybe once he's in school, and I can actually work to support myself and my kids.” I was given this really strong spiritual impression about what would happen if I waited. I said, “Okay, never mind. I won't wait. Oh, I'll go now.” But I really did feel like He was parting the Red Sea for me. And He was like saying, “Come on. It's time.”
Tamara Anderson 22:47
Wow. It probably gave you such an appreciation for that story in the Old Testament of Moses and the children of Israel leaving and just the apprehension. I think it's interesting that we can look at stories like that and say, “Well, why didn't they X, Y and Z?” It just seems so logical in our brains. But when we put ourselves in their situation, and we're asked to do something new and different that takes us through unchartered waters and maybe through a desert for a little bit, we're probably just as whiny and complaining as they were. Yes. We're saying, Aare you sure you're leading us the right way?” Oh, my goodness. Yes. Absolutely. I remember feeling that exact same way many years ago. “I don't want to go that way.” “Too bad. You can't go back because the army of Pharaoh’s there.” Yes, exactly. “You want to die, or do you want to go through the Red Sea?” “Red Sea is good.” I will go forward even though I'm scared to death to do it. Taking those steps towards a new different is so scary. There's no other word for it. It's scary. So how did you find the strength to take those steps forward through your own personal Red Sea?
Julianne 24:19
It's definitely a me and God experience. I didn't feel like I had a person on the earth who was like, gonna stand by my side and really help me through it. It was like, me and God together. Every day was scary. There were times when I tried to say, “Actually, you know, maybe my old life was okay. And I could just, you know, go back.” And then I’d get pushed and shown a new reason why I can't go back and then pushed, and pushed. Everybody is different in terms of how they feel about divorce and what they're willing to contemplate. For me, because it was an absolute never, I had a really hard time accepting that that was what God wanted me to do. I really relied on some very powerful revelations that God gave me, through prayer, and through scriptures, and through dreams I had. He was delivering what I needed. I needed, like, you know, like the burning bush. Like, I needed the big vision, the big deal, because I wouldn't have gone for anything less.
Tamara Anderson 25:48
Wow. So let me ask you, what was it that pulled you forward, when you were so scared? What was it that you kind of focused on and said, “Okay, I'm moving forward, because here's what I'm looking forward to, or here's what I'm hoping for?”
Julianne 26:08
I had this really strong impression, or vision, that came as I was pleading to not go through with the divorce. And it was a vision of my family, if I didn't go through with it. And it was scary. And it really helped me to see that, like, sometimes staying is worse for the kids. And I was able to hold that in my mind. And knew that I stayed as long as I did for the sake of my kids. And I'm leaving when I am for the sake of my kids. And that's what gave me the courage to do it. And every time I had someone come to me, and I had a lot of people come to me and say, “I think you're making a mistake, why don't you give this another chance? Don't do this to your kids. You're going to mess them up,” things like that. And I could just hold on to that vision, and know, “Okay, God showed me what would happen if I stayed. And that's not what I want for my children. And so there's got to be a better future for them ahead of me.” For me, I had to be unshakable in my conviction, because I had so much opposition to leaving. Just a tremendous amount of opposition. And then, just the obstacles. I'm a single mom with five kids. And my youngest is two years old. And my career is in shambles. And I'm a romance writer. Suddenly, I don't know how to write a romance novel anymore, because I'm so hurt, and jaded, and questioning everything about love and commitment, you know, like, all those things. I think that that vision was really what propelled me when I felt so afraid of the future.
Tamara Anderson 28:18
Wow. It's amazing how God gives us little gifts like that, that He gives us something that he knows will be strong enough to motivate us forward. And sometimes it's, “This is what will happen if you don't.” Sometimes it's, “You've got to do this because it's a positive thing.” But it's still scary. Right? Right. Either way, sometimes that vision, it has to be strong enough, whatever the emotion is, to propel us through the yucky middle, that is so scary and frightening. Yes.
As you were talking I was just thinking, that as friends and neighbors of people going through, for example, a divorce, how important it is to be supportive. Because you said you got a lot of backlash. As a general rule, maybe it is better. But I think that's the cool thing about involving God in any big decision. You are getting inspiration specifically for you. Right, right. Whoever you are, if you're watching somebody go through this, let them make that decision, especially if they're making it with God. Trust that God has their back, you know, and He's gonna guide them to make the right decision for them. Does that make sense?
Julianne 29:38
Yes, absolutely. There's no life plan that is one size fits all. And when we go around judging other people's lives and decisions based on what we think is the perfect life, you know, we're always wrong. Always.
Tamara Anderson 29:58
Yeah. And you know what's interesting? I always used to wish that my kids came with an instruction manual. Like, “Dear Tamara, this is how you parent this child.” Yes. But I think I've come to realize that the reason God didn't give us an instruction manual for each of our kids is it would be way too big and way too thick. We would never remember everything in it. Or at least I wouldn't. But second, it also gives us the chance to connect to God and say, “Here I am in this situation. What do I do now?”
Julianne 30:39
Yes, right. Yeah, it keeps us turning to Him. I mean, if we were given like a play by play of our life, how would we continue to have like, a relationship with him? We would just, “Oh, I got the book.”
Tamara Anderson 30:57
Okay. Yeah, I got the book. But the cool thing is that He does care about these details of our lives. He cares about our kids, He cares about you, He cares about me. And each of our paths is going to look totally different, right?
Julianne 31:14
Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, when I got that scripture given to me, you know, all the plans I have for you, you know, I thought the plan was going to be to fix everything that's wrong in my life. And the plan was actually deliverance. And I was not expecting that to be the plan. And yet, I can see so much beauty in His plan that I wouldn't have experienced if He was just going to reach down and, you know, fix everything for me.
Tamara Anderson 31:50
I like that. And sometimes I think God gives us one baby step at a time so that maybe along your detoured path here, He's like, “I'm going to reveal to you.” And if He knows that the end goal is deliverance, He's not going to maybe tell you all of that at first. He's gonna give you the first step. “Okay, here's the first thing that you do.” You know what I mean? Yes. And I used to look at that, “line upon line” thing, and I'm like, “Oh, for Pete's sakes, just give me the end goal already.” I think He doesn't give it to me because He doesn't want to overwhelm me. Probably. And maybe I'd be way too scared to take step number one if I know step number 557.
Julianne 32:41
Turn around and head for the hills.
Tamara Anderson 32:44
I'm out. I'm not going down that. Bad. Oh, my goodness. Well, this kind of morphs into this amazing book. And I don't know if you can see it. There it is. “Come, Sweet Day” that Julianne wrote through this process. We're gonna take a quick break. But when we get back, we're gonna have Julianne talk to us a little bit more about her new book, “Come, Sweet Day,” and why it is different than her books “Edenbrooke,” and “Blackmore,” and what it is exactly and how it can benefit both you and those who are struggling, that are within your sphere of influence. Stay tuned.
Hi, this is Tamara K. Anderson, and I want to share something special with you. When our son, Nathan, was diagnosed with autism, I felt like the life we had expected for him was ripped away, and with it, my own heart shattered as well. It's very common for families to feel anger, pain, confusion, and anxiety when a child is diagnosed. This is where my book, “Normal for Me,” comes into play. It shares my story of learning to replace my pain with acceptance, peace, joy, and hope. “Normal for Me” has helped change many lives, and I'd like to give this book to as many families as possible. We put together something I think is really special. My friends and listeners can order copies of my book at a significantly discounted price. We will send them to families who have just had a child diagnosed with autism or another special needs diagnosis. We will put your name inside the cover so they will know someone out there loves them and wants to help. I will also sign each copy. You can order as little as one or as many as hundreds to be shared with others. So go to my website, tamarakanderson.com, and visit the store section for more information and to place your order. You can bless the lives of many families by sending them hope, love, and peace. Check it out today at tamarakanderson.com, and help me spread hope to the world.
And we're back. I've been interviewing author Julianne Donaldson about her crazy life situation when she went from normal, to going through a divorce, and the courage she had to have to be able to press forward and make it through that.
And now we're transitioning to the different kind of book that Julianne has written called “Come, Sweet Day.” Now, Julianne is known for her amazing, beautiful, proper romance books, “Edenbrooke,” and “Blackmore.” I have both of them. But because you weren't feeling the romance, you ended up writing this beautiful book called “Come, Sweet Day.” It is a book of poetry. And I remember when I read this, that's actually why I reached out to her because I thought, “Oh, my gosh, this is exactly what my podcast is about.” It's called “Holding on to Hope in Dark Times.” And this is your journey of little poems and thoughts that you wrote, while you were going through these super tough and anguishing times. And what I love about your book is it is raw and vulnerable. And it talks about brokenness. It talks about turning to God, and finding peace, and solace, and hope in Jesus Christ.
I'm going to read you guys just a little snippet of the introduction, because it's so amazing. Hope you'll forgive me here, Julia. She says,
“I have learned that nobody is immune to dark times. I've also learned to never take for granted the times when things go well. I've learned that in order to stretch me, God will allow me to walk through dark times that no amount of hard work, prayer, or faith can prevent.”
And then you go on to talk about feeling like the devil had grabbed hold of your ankles, and was like dragging you down. And what you did, then, would you mind sharing with me what you what you felt and went through at that point?
Julianne 37:21
Well, I'm a visual thinker, I love analogies. So I felt like, “Okay, here I am.” I already suffered from depression, and then, I went through something really difficult. The stretching was so painful. I thought, “Why? Everything I'm going through is so painful.” And I had this idea, or this image come to my mind that, here's the devil, he's got me by the ankles, he's pulling with all of his might. I can go with him. And that would probably be an easier journey, and more comfortable journey at the moment. Or, I could reach up to God, and He can grab me by the hands and pull that way. And with the devil pulling down, and God pulling up, you know, this is how I'm being stretched. The stretching comes from holding on to God, when these really hard times come. That's where I felt the most growth in my soul. Growth, in my perspective, a change in my heart. It's painful to be stretched. I don't like it. I'd rather not do it. And yet, when it comes down to it, I don't want to be dragged down.
Tamara Anderson 38:45
No. Right. So just hold on for dear life. Yes, exactly. So for those of you feeling that way, just grasp on to God and hang on for dear life. God is not going to let go of you. Right. Right. Exactly. That's I mean, it's easy. And one of the things I loved about that introduction that you said there was that, first of all, nobody's immune to dark times, so we're all going to go through them. So if you think you're alone, you're really not. Don't take for granted the good times. One of the things I loved about your book is that you found joy in little things. And you wrote about them. Things like songbirds, or sunrises, or sunsets. You compared a lot of things to what we see in nature, and it just makes the comparison so much more real. Well, tell me what looking at and taking time to pause and experience nature, how that helped you as you were going through this stretching time.
Julianne 40:02
So when I started going to therapy, I started to notice that every night that I was having a hard day, I saw the most beautiful sunsets. I hate to sound proud, or vain. But I started to think, “God is creating the sunsets for me to show me that He loves me because He knows that I love sunsets.” And I would be at my kitchen sink, and I would look out the window, having a hard time. And there it is, just framed for me. And it just happened over, and over, and over again. And I realized, this is a way that God speaks to me. He speaks to me through sunsets. I have a friend who God speaks to her through rainbows. I have another friend who God speaks to her through butterflies. And I think that God is trying to speak to us all the time. And when we start to pay attention, and we say, “Oh, I saw that message,” then He'll send more messages like that. And so when I saw that sunset, “Oh, that's for me, that has to be for me. That's so beautiful.” And I saw it just at the right time. And it's just when I needed it, that's for me, then He continued to talk to me through sunsets. There's so many lonely days where my kids were gone and it's just me. I could sit inside and feel lonely, or I could walk outside and observe, you know, like, what do I learn from seeing that bird? What do I learn from the spider? What do I learn from the changing of seasons? I found so many lessons, and I felt so much peace. And I really felt like, those times when I felt alone, those were actually like the best opportunities to talk to God, and to find His answers around me. Because He uses everything in his realm to communicate with us. So sometimes I claim that sometimes I claim sunsets, you know,
Tamara Anderson 42:36
It’s good that you can claim sunsets. It’s good. It doesn't mean somebody else can't claim them too.
Julianne 42:41
They’re for other people too, but sometimes they're just for you. That's a mark that really helped me grow in my sense of worth, you know, feeling like, God could rearrange, you know, clouds, and light, and earth, and prompted me to look out my window at the right time. He would do that for me, because that's how much He loves me. I think if we all felt like that, like God loves us enough to rearrange heaven and earth for us to show us His love, then we start to come to a sense of what we're really worth.
Tamara Anderson 43:21
Yeah, oh, I love that so much. And I love that you took the time to spend those lonely hours. It would have been so easy for you to be, you know, stuck on your phone or, you know, engrossed in something else. But you took those times to sit with your loneliness in a place where you could communicate with God and where He could communicate back to you through nature. I think that takes courage, you know, to not just… What is the right word I'm looking? Not just be distracted by the many distractions that we have available to us nowadays, right? So it takes courage to be comfortable in your loneliness and turn to God. So that's a powerful lesson.
Julianne 44:16
Yeah, to sit with it, you know, to be present with whatever is painful at the moment. I found that that's really where I grew up, those times when I was able to, you know, just face the pain, and face the grief, and let it be what it was.
Tamara Anderson 44:47
Did you find that you had, like, little conversations with God as you were sitting there, maybe at your kitchen sink or on the back patio, or wherever you were?
Julianne 44:56
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I’m sitting on the back patio going, “Wow, that's such a pretty sunset. Thank you for sending that to me. Now, what should I do about my kids? What should I?” When you see a sign of His love, I think for me, that was also a sign that, oh, yeah, that's right. I can talk to Him about anything and everything. So, let's dig deep. You know, let's really talk about what's meaningful right now.
Tamara Anderson 45:30
Oh, that's beautiful. I almost feel like we have to share one of your poems. Okay, guys, I'm just gonna do a huge plug for Julianne right here. So just bear with me, because this is beautiful. I think you need to have two books on your nightstand besides the scriptures. “Edenbrooke,” to escape into for those days that you need to escape, because let's be honest, we all need to escape sometimes. And then, “Come, Sweet Day,” for those days when you need to feel understood. And it's just beautiful. Do you have a favorite one you want to share?
Julianne 46:07
I have so many different favorites.
Tamara Anderson 46:10
You're like, “Tamara, they're all my favorites, or they wouldn't be in the book.” Hello. We're gonna have Julianne share one of the beautiful poems from her book, “Come, Sweet Day.” And this is one about courage because she showed an extraordinary amount of courage as she was going through that. And I have to say that each of these poems has a beautiful image that goes along with it. It’s a color image. It's healing, not only visually to your soul, but the words have a healing balm to them, because you feel like oh, my gosh, she totally gets me. Okay, so why don't you read that for us, Julianne? Okay, I'll show you what it looks like. There you go. So there's this cool picture of a light.
Julianne 46:50
“At the end of the day, when your bright smiles have worn off, and you're just waiting for your kids to come back to you and remind you what life is all about. You can sit with a porch light on, and that's courage, too.”
Tamara Anderson 47:05
I love that. Now, tell me that the story behind that?
Julianne 47:10
Oh, the story behind that is, you know, me sitting alone on the porch with the light on just feeling like, “I don't know what my life is when I don't have my kids.” I don't have someone to love and I don't have, you know, someone to nurture or take care of. So I don't know what to do, you know, to get a good life back. But I'll just sit here and wait. And a lot of my poems are about waiting. I think waiting, what I discovered is, you know, the wilderness aspects, you know, you're delivered from captivity, but you're in the wilderness for 40 years, there's a lot that happens.
Tamara Anderson 48:03
Oh, my goodness, that is so true. And you're right, a lot of your poems are waiting and processing these, the anger with God and having Him turn it to grace, and mercy, and love, and compassion. And you do such a good job about teaching through your poems how God helps us, wherever we are, to take the next step towards healing, whatever that looks like for each of us. And it's beautifully done. Now, one of the lessons that you talked about learning through this difficult time was that hope is a choice and like a muscle. Explain to me what you mean by that.
Julianne 48:52
So, I've suffered from depression for 20 years. And I've gotten a lot of therapy and I've taken a lot of medications, and I have come to see hope and optimism, they don't come naturally to me. I am just not a natural optimist. And then you throw in, you know, like, a chemical element to it. And it's really easy for me to go down roads of negativity in my thought patterns. And I found that hope, just like optimism, hope is a choice. And for years, I think my hope was pretty fragile. It was pretty easy to have ups and downs. And I've learned that it's just like a muscle, like we can flex it. It can grow stronger with use. I can practice hope, to the point where my hope becomes more and more buoyant. Just getting up every day and fixing my thoughts on hope, and fixing my thoughts on the Savior, and how He delivers me, that's what's given me this really bright vision of my future. And so in that way, I learned to overcome my natural tendency towards depression. And I would say now, I'm a very hopeful, positive person. But it didn't come without work. It really took a lot of daily flexing of that muscle to be a positive person.
Tamara Anderson 50:39
Hmm. You mentioned that involving God in this and that you would hope for your Savior to help you through all of this. What role did he play as you began exercising just a tiny bit of hope? Okay, today, I'm going to get out of bed even though I want to stay in bed. Did you pray your way through that and say, “Okay, God, I don't feel like getting out of bed today. So, I need your help.” Basically, I'm wondering, how did you do that? Because when you do have a chemical imbalance, it is super hard to take forward motion when you feel like you're drowning.
Julianne 51:24
Yes. And sometimes I didn't. And I should point that out that, like, just because I can say now, I feel like I'm a hopeful person, doesn't mean that every day consistently, I'm jumping out of bed. There are definitely days when I'm not. I do want to answer your question. But I wanted to share this poem.
Tamara Anderson 51:46
Oh, please, we love your poems. So let's do another one.
Julianne 51:51
“We all have quiet times in life, times of retreat when we lie prostrate, because it is all we can do. I have lived so long in this quiet time. Life goes on around me. Days stretch into months, then years. Dreams are achieved and milestones passed by others, while I lie still, forehead to the ground, and plead for my time to stand.” And so I think that imagining me just jumping out of bed being happy every day, like, that's not what it looks like. For me, hope was, this is a really hard day. I don't feel like I'm doing anything more than lying still. Or, I would imagine myself like a boulder in a stream, you know, and everything was going on, was washing over me. And all I could do was just curl in, and just, “Here I am.” All I can do is just protect my spot, basically. But that I had hope. I had a very strong, bright hope that there were better days coming. That there was going to be a promised land. That there was going to be deliverance from everything, you know, even from the wilderness. And yeah, it was a lot of prayer. And it was a lot of holding on to the spiritual experiences I'd had in the past. Experiences that just felt really personal, and strong. Just holding on to those.
I think that's also why I started to see God's messages in the world around me. Because when you don't have, like, regular visions, or it doesn't feel like God is talking to you, then you'll look other places. I haven't had a vision in, like, two years, but I saw a beautiful sunrise. The birds came and visited today. I felt joy, and that's God. Of course, I'm never gonna downplay the significance of depression. You know, of course, all along the way, I had to take care of myself. I had to stay on top of my medication. I had to use all the tools in my toolbox that keeps me from sinking into depression. But I definitely found a greater buoyancy of hope when I was turning to God every day and when I was seeing Him every day in my life.
Tamara Anderson 54:31
That's beautiful. You mentioned the things that you do to keep you from sinking into depression. What are some of your tactics that you have used? Because I know that that is something that I have family members who struggle with. I, myself, struggle with anxiety and have kids who struggle with both depression and anxiety. What are some of your go to things that help you take care of yourself, so that you don't sink into a low point into depression?
Julianne 55:06
So one of the best techniques I found that helps me, is I start off every morning journaling. And I mean, you could call it meditating, you could call it praying, or just taking time to think about what you know, what the day holds, and in just connecting with God and connecting with my true self. And sometimes that takes 15 minutes, and sometimes it takes an hour, it's kind of just depends on what's going on with my day. I start every day listing three things I'm grateful for, and three things I'm excited about. That's just to get my thoughts on a positive path, instead of the negative path that they are used to taking, I always start out my day with positivity, and then open my day with prayer and thanksgiving. And then the other thing I do is, you know, I have to be really careful about taking care of myself, because I know that I'm vulnerable to depression. So that means taking time for the things that will, you know, give me like the happy chemicals that I need. So taking time to exercise, taking time to be outside, taking time to connect with someone that I love. And when I neglect those things, then it gets a lot harder to manage my depression. And so you know, I love 15 second hugs. I just grab one of my kids, 15 seconds. Sometimes it gets longer than 15 seconds, and they’re like, “Okay, Mom, come on.” I'm like, “No.”
Tamara Anderson 57:06
My goodness, no, I love that. I've heard that as well. And I have a friend who does do that every time I see her. She gives me at least a 15 second hike. And they're the best hugs ever. I'm just saying.
Julianne 57:19
There is actually like, I think it's actually eight seconds is about the time when your brain starts to release the happy chemicals. I'll just hold my kids, and especially my teenagers who also suffer from depression and anxiety. I'll just hold on to them, and count slowly. Then once I start to feel that nice, little happy, okay, I'm starting to relax, I'm starting to feel well-being, like, this means that my brain is releasing happy chemicals. Then I say to my kids, “Do you feel it? Is your brain kicking in and releasing the happy chemicals too?” And they say, “Yeah.”
Tamara Anderson 57:57
Okay. That's awesome. But it's good to know these little tips and tricks because they really can make a difference. I love that you have come to the realization that you are worth taking care of, and that you have to do these things to take care of yourself. I think, especially as moms, we are super neglectful of ourselves. It's like, we take care of everybody else, and we're like, last on the totem pole. You know, it's like, “If I have time.”
Julianne 58:32
It can be so easy to fall into that. Yeah. But then, I'm just no good. Right? You know, like, if I can't replenish myself, then I have nothing to give to the people I want to serve.
Tamara Anderson 58:49
I think that's such a wise, wise lesson that that you have learned. This has been so amazing. And I feel like you've shared so many, not only amazing tips for getting through hard times, but tips to help you move forward, or maybe hold still with a little more patience with the process. Before we go, you've shared your favorite Bible verse with us. Would you please share with us how people can find you, get ahold of you, read your books? And then would you mind, at the very end, reading the conclusion of your “Come, Sweet Day” book for us,
Julianne 59:32
I'm happy to, thank you. Okay, so if you want to get ahold of me, my website is juliannedonaldson.com I'm on Facebook as Julianne Donaldson, author. I'm on Instagram as @writerjulianne. Yes, and thank you so much for having me. It's been so good to talk and connect.
So this is the conclusion of my book, “Come, Sweet Day.” “
“What's so great about the unchosen life, the detours and the derailments and the catastrophes? What's so wonderful about the empty bank account, the broken heart, or the sick loved one is the privilege of seeing the hand of the Lord in your life. I never knew how much God had prepared for me, and how much he works for my benefit until I entered my wilderness. Until I started my rough sea voyage. I had no idea in my self-sufficiency, how much goodness and generosity live in the hearts of the people all around me. This wilderness I've been living in for the past few years has enabled me to feel more joy and greater love than I ever imagined I could. What a privilege it is to be chosen for refining. What an honor to be humbled, so that I can see who has been supporting me all along. And how choice are these days when heaven’s veil is parted for a moment, and I glimpse angels winging their way to Earth to come to my aid. Healing is a journey. Becoming is a journey. Growth and change are all part of life's test. For the record, I have not arrived. I'm not on the other side of anything. I feel like I've been running a marathon for years now. Yet, it's only mile 13. For anyone who is just starting their race, or feels like it will never end, I'm not on the other side telling you to just keep running. I'm in the pack with you, maybe even behind you, and I'm calling out, “Keep running! Keep your head up. This will be worth it. It will all be worth it.” I'm telling it to myself just as much as I'm telling it to you. Because here's the thing. You don't have to get to the other side of a trial, in order to be grateful for that trial, or in order to have your faith strengthened, or in order to recognize the compensatory blessings of the Lord. In fact, if you're thinking you're going to wait until you get to the end to find those things, you'll be missing out. You've got to run the race with your happy shirt on. Run the race because you're grateful to be alive. Run the race, because running it will make you stronger than you were before. Run the race because God set the race before you. God is good. Trust Him.”
Tamara Anderson 1:02:27
Thank you for sharing that. I know when I read that, I just thought, “Oh, we have got to end the podcast with this because it's just beautiful.” And it is such a beautiful book. So if you or someone you know is really struggling right now, and you want to give them a gift that is not only meaningful, but will help them feel understood, and like somebody understands where they are, I recommend this book, “Come, Sweet Day,” by Julianne Donaldson. It is just phenomenal. I've already given a copy away to a friend who's going through divorce and it is powerful. So I highly recommend it. Julianne, thank you for writing it. Thank you for pouring out your soul into this book so that others know they're not alone.
Julianne 1:03:19
Thank you, Tamara. It's been so good to talk to you, and I hope that something I share can help someone else who's struggling because I know that we're not alone. You're not alone.
Tamara Anderson 1:03:33
Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's show. If you like what you heard, subscribe so you can get your weekly dose of powerful stories of hope. I know there are many of you out there who are going through a hard time, and I hope you found useful things that you can apply to your own life in today's podcast. If you'd like to access the show notes of today's show, please visit my website, storiesofhopepodcast.com. There you will find a summary of today's show, the transcript, and one of my favorite takeaways. You know, if someone kept coming to mind during today's episode, perhaps that means that you should share this episode with them. Maybe there was a story shared, or quote, or a scripture verse that they really, really need to hear. So go ahead and share this podcast. May God bless you, especially if you are struggling, with hope to carry on, and with the strength to keep going when things get tough. Remember to walk with Christ and He will help you bear the burden. And above all else, remember God loves you.
https://www.tamarakanderson.com/podcasts/julianne-donaldson-how-i-turned-my-throw-away-soul-into-my-true-self