Andre Norman: From Prisoner to Unlimited Success

Andre Norman thought he'd spend the rest of his life in prison until God gave him an epiphany which changed everything!

Episode Discussion Points

  • He learned how important it was to follow instructions (the recipe) when he did a culinary class in prison, and since he has been released from prison he applies that same principle to life.

  • The path that led him to choose material things over integrity and character

  • He ended up in jail and wanted to be the boss of the gang

  • The epiphany he had when God told him to not go down that life path.

  • He decided he didn’t want to be free (because every prisoner who got out came back. He wanted to be successful.

  • He decided he wanted to go to Harvard University.

  • So for the next 8 years he did everything he could to move toward that goal.

  • When he got out the next steps he took that opened doors for him to get into Boston College.

  • How he learned why it is important to have blind faith in God but not in man.

  • The power of being taught that he was a golden eagle—not the golden goose.

  • Don’t live with other people’s limitations. Let God help you live in abundance.

  • “They stopped the job, but I maintained the mindset.”

  • The two books he keeps on his nightstand and his favorite Bible Psalm.

  • “So get close to God, which is get close to nature and just study. Just be one with nature. Just go lay in the grass. It's the best feeling ever.”

Favorite Quotes

  • "I didn't have to audition. I just had to be authentic."

  • “He said you're a golden eagle. So you don't have to sit there and let somebody else benefit off of you. You're allowed to fly and spread your wings.”

  • “It doesn't get much better than this I thought. How could it be much better than this? It can always be greater if you let go and let God.”

  • People's limits shouldn't have to be yours.”

  • Speaking of his scriptures, “These are my guideposts and you will never find a house that I live in that these won't be two feet from my bed.”

  • There is nothing that can't be done if God is with you. And if you put limits on yourself, then you put limits on yourself.”

  • The Word of God is great. Study God. And it'll lead.

Recommended Resources

  • Who Not How by Ben Hardy & Dan Sullivan

  • Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss

  • Giftology By John Ruhlin

  • The 90-minute Book by Dean Jackson

  • Ambassador of Hope by Andre Norman—purchase it HERE

Connect with Andre Norman

#tamarakanderson #storiesofhopeinhardtimes #podcast #hope #God #hardtimes #prisoner #success #limitations #AmbassadorofHope #businesssuccess #trustinGod #mercy #grace #Godsgoodness

Transcription

You can find the transcription of today's episode here:

Andre Norman 0:04

Okay, I'm at Boston College, one of the top schools in the area. I'm in class on Monday. And I'm going to class and I'm getting great grades and I'm going to class. And one day I needed something. So I went to Father was his office and I said, um, I need such and such. They said, Hold on let me pull your file. They wait and they pull my file. And she brought it back. She said, you don't have an application. I said, What's that? And she put my file on the table. It was a yellow sticky note, from Pat to Father woods. And they said, Father Woods this is a remarkable man. He has all the gifts that you could have asked for. He just needs a chance. That was my application for Boston College. I had a life time scholarship, because somebody spoke up. That's $50,000 a year.

Tamara Anderson 0:59

Welcome to Stories of Hope in Hard times, the show that explores how people endure and even thrive in difficult times, all with God's help. I'm your host Tamara K Anderson. Join me on a journey to find inspiring stories of hope and wisdom learned in life's hardest moments.

Tamara Anderson 1:25

Nearly two decades ago, my guest today was not only serving a 100 year sentence in prison, but he was also running all the gang activity within the facility. After an epiphany in solitary confinement and a lot of hard work, he was released, GED in hand having served just 14 years. His tenacity and passion for people led him to start his transformational program, the Academy of hope, a program designed to reduce institutional violence in prisons by providing an intense level of intervention while also creating a positive environment for the inmate population and staff. Since his release, his mission has been to teach individuals and corporations how to turn any situation around. His solution-based recovery efforts have impacted regions including Honduras, Bahamas, Sweden, Batswana, Liberia and Trinidad. He has lectured on multiple TEDx stages, as well as Harvard University and London Business School. And his innovative strategies against gang activity and inmate manipulation has improved correctional systems across the United States. I am pleased to welcome Andre Norman. Andre, are you ready to share your story of hope?

Andre Norman 2:44

I am ready. I'm 100% ready!

Tamara Anderson 2:48

Yes, sir, you sure are. And I'm so excited to have you on today's show. Now, and we're going to break the ice here with a little interesting fact. Little known interesting fact about you. And that is that you are a pastry chef. Tell me how in the world that happened.

Andre Norman 3:05

Oh, I was in prison. And I was in the school building writing my book, working on my book. And one of the teachers was a culinary teacher. He was friends with the teacher the class I was sitting in. He said, Hey, Dre wants to join the culinary class. I was like nah. And he finally talked me into it. And I went over to the culinary class and I signed up because it was better food. And there's three basic fundamental things that you do in culinary class: cook meats, you do desserts, and you do serving. Like you rotate a week and each and you rotate for six months until you graduate.

Andre Norman 3:41

When I got to the pastry part, to the desserts, I loved it. Oh, yeah, I've made cookies and cakes and pies, and I just stopped doing anything else. I thought, this is all I'm doing. He's like Dre, I don't care. This is what I'm doing. I spent probably like a year and a half, just making pastries.

Tamara Anderson 3:57

Wow. And it's so cool. And

Andre Norman 4:01

And the clever. And the best thing of that is what it taught me was I don't cook since I'm home or bake. But the thing I took most from the pastry class is how to follow instructions. How To be precise, how to be detailed. Because when you're making a dessert, it says three cups of flour, two cups of sugar, one teaspoon of salt, you can't change it. It's a it's a science project. And if you don't follow the instructions, you won't get the results. So I did that for almost two years. So now my regular life, I follow the instructions.

Tamara Anderson 4:37

I love that I love that oh my goodness, such a such a widely applicable thing and and it's incredible that you were able to pull that from cooking. And I bake all the time. And I've learned that that concept too, but I guess I'd never put two and two together in my brain. And the reason this turns out is because you're following the instructions. But you're absolutely right.

Andre Norman 4:57

When you deviate from the instructions add extra butter, add extra sugar, take away the salt, it doesn't work.

Tamara Anderson 5:05

Or it sure doesn't taste as good.

Unknown Speaker 5:07

It doesn't work. People aren't clamoring for more of it didn't work. Something's gonna come out of the oven. What people want is another story.

Tamara Anderson 5:18

That is awesome. Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you for sharing that amazing tidbit just as we're kicking off the interview. Now let's let's go back into your life to your youth. And kind of set the stage for me what did growing up look like for you?

Andre Norman 5:36

Growing up for me look like America in the 70s. I was born '67. So the last half of the 60s, which if you know history was a tremendous was a really tough time for blacks and for Americans. And then the 70s, which was black power movement, and people just getting the opportunity to speak out and be different. And so I'm growing up in a time of upheaval between blacks and whites, blacks who try to assert themselves and take control and whites to try and say no. And one of the things that happened was they said black kids and white should go to school together. Because up until the 70s, most places weren't integrated, they were separate. So I went to all black school for the first two years and didn't even realize it until they sent me to white school.

Andre Norman 6:23

And then riding the bus to school and those scenarios, where kids would throw rocks at us and throw names at us because we were trying to integrate. See nobody knew what integration met. A federal judge decided this should happen. I didn't decide it. So they weren't mad at the judge, they were mad at me, my brothers and sisters and friends, they would throw rocks and stones at us.

Andre Norman 6:45

And what I found out from that, from that situation was my father went through the same thing. When he was a young boy growing up in Virginia, kids would throw rocks names at them just for being black. And it was just an accepted practice. So when it happened to me, it was an accepted practice. And so we went through that, that season of change in America, and we come out of that, you just find out that life is tough, it's tough enough being poor. It's tough enough being then you have to be black on top of that and in Americas in the 70s wasn't neat. So we get to the better space, my parents split up.

Andre Norman 7:23

So single mom, six kids, she's tried to make it work. And she's struggling. My mom had a lot of pride, she wouldn't go on welfare. So she's working three jobs. And I'm watching my mother struggle to try to take care of us. And I'm not understanding the sacrifice, or the lesson of not going on welfare. I'm not understanding the determination my mother is demonstrating, and trying to lift her family up by herself. And not taking a handout. I didn't see the stuff that I'm not getting, versus the lessons that I should have been getting.

Andre Norman 7:56

And so at some point, I go to the street to find my own way. I wasn't appreciative of what my mother was doing for me. I wanted more. I was greedy in the things that I wanted for myself. So I would have to try to make my own way. And the ways I was making wasn't good. So I'm selling marijuana in the park after school. I'm being cool. And I'm being accepted. And I'm getting the things that I want and the response from people by having those things. So if you have the right stuff, you get the right response, or so you think. And so I'm getting acknowledged for doing bad. I'm getting applause for having things. So at sixth and seventh grade, our world became materialistic. It's what can I have thats generate interest in me? What can I I'm saying show the generates interest in me?

Andre Norman 8:45

My character and integrity didn't matter. Did I have the right jacket on? Did I have the right shoes, or did I have the right bag? Can I buy popcorn after school? Those are the things that matter, all superficial and external things. And I started living in that space. And I gave up on my trumpet. I used to play the trumpet. And I gave up my trumpet for external things. That was something that came from inside of me.

Andre Norman 9:09

Playing that trumpet came from inside. It was my Spirit speaking into the world through the trumpet. And I gave that up. And when I gave up playing my trumpet, because my friends said it wasn't cool. And in the ninth grade, your friend said something's not cool. It's serious. You know, growing up poor is hard. But people have done it and made it. Growing up without a dad is tough. But people have done it and made it. Growning up in tough times is hard, but people have done it and made it. Trying to grow up without a dream. It's not possible. It's not possible. I mean, you might not ever get your dream but you can't grow up without one.

Andre Norman 9:48

And when I gave up my trumpet, I gave up my dreams. So I started drifting. And I'm in street full time and that's why I started getting in trouble. More and more and more severe, more serious. I ended up in court. And the Judge just started giving out sentences. And he gave me a 7-10s, two 9-10s, two 10s, two 15 -20s and a 5. And they put me in a van, we drove in a prison and they dropped me off.

Tamara Anderson 10:11

Wow. So one of the lessons to learn here is the importance of not giving up on kids, especially in elementary school, right?

Andre Norman 10:22

Not just not giving up on kids. You can look at kids in middle school and elementary, and you can almost say, you know, who's going to jail? That's the easy part. Identifying who's going to jail is easy. Making a stand for them is the hard part.

Tamara Anderson 10:38

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No. And I get that I have as a parent of two special needs kiddos I've had to battle for my kids their entire educational lives, you know, and it's tough. It's tough. But but it's um, you do need somebody in there battling for you because you're too young to understand and do it for yourself, right?

Andre Norman 11:01

My mom was overwhelmed. My dad's not there. And the people who knew this, like, what do you do? So I'm not blaming the teachers and the guidance counselors in the system or probation officers. But I walked the course that had been laid out for me.

Tamara Anderson 11:17

Mm hmm.

Andre Norman 11:18

It wasn't like a strange course that I was on to anybody else. They saw it coming since I was in second grade. But nobody put me on another path.

Tamara Anderson 11:29

Wow. Wow. Well, you bring up some amazing amazing points here and, and how important it is to give kids the opportunity to learn how they learn best. And to give them ample opportunities and and people who will stand up for him in all cases, you know,

Andre Norman 11:52

Standing up doesn't mean adoption.

Tamara Anderson 11:54

Yeah, exactly.

Andre Norman 11:55

It doesn't mean like yelling at my mom, understand the path that I'm walking on. And equip me for that path. I know I work with people today who are going off the cliff. I don't try to stop them from going off the cliff because they've made the decision. What I teach them is how to climb out of the ravine. Teaching people how to fall better is a waste is a waste of time. He's not a climb up the ravine. That's what they that's the lesson this child needs. You're going off the cliff. Cool. Let me show you how to climb out. Yeah, that's the lessons I needed. This is how you climb up.

Tamara Anderson 12:35

Yeah, yeah. So why don't you then take me to arriving at prison, and the epiphany that you had that helped you learn how to climb out.

Andre Norman 12:46

I get to the prison, maximum security, you've heard the stories, it's a scary place. And I was scared. And some guys came to me from my neighborhood and they said, Hey, join our gang. I'm like, sounds like a good idea to me. So I joined a gang for protection for camaraderie, forinformation for a place in the space to be. And when I joined that gang, my spirit says I want to be a boss. My Spirit says, I lead, I don't follow. But to lead, I have to learn how to follow first. So my goal from day one was to be in charge because it just an Andre thing.

Andre Norman 13:20

And I went through six years of proving myself, learning lessons, studying, hurting people, doing all the things that you had to do to become the boss. Then I became the third ranking gang member in the state. I've committed numerous violent acts against people. I've been convicted twice of attempted murder. I've been placed in solitary confinement in a hole in the basement for two and a half years with no sunlight. And I thought I was winning. I thought these are the things that you needed to do to be successful in this space. So what you saw as a detriment, I saw it as a badge of honor. And I'm thinking that I'm winning, because I'm being acknowledged for the things that I'm presenting again.

Andre Norman 14:01

Back in middle school I had the right bag, I have the right hat, I had the right stuff. People acknowledge, I do these violent acts. I get in trouble in this way. I accept this suffering and torture, and people applaud me for it. So I'm thinking I'm doing the right thing because my people around me are applauding.

Andre Norman 14:21

And then I had an I had a situation where I was going to hurt somebody in God spoke. And God said, Don't do this life choice. I got mad that God spoke. I said, Why are you speaking to me God? See, all my life there's been no God. And my mother used to get beat to the floor. There was no God. When kids threw rocks at me on a bus and called me a nigger. There was no God. When I was placed in a dummy class at the Edmund P. Carlson elementary school, there was no God. When I had to go out and sell drugs to buy clean clothes. There was no God.

Andre Norman 14:51

And I just went down a list like listen, I'm not one of your people. It's okay. I'm doing fine all by myself. I'm running this whole thing. You go find somebody who's praying to you with their face and flowing, screaming hallelujah. I'm not on that team. I'm on team Andre. And God just kept saying, Don't do this life choice. And He won the argument.

Andre Norman 15:11

I went back to my cell, and I sat out. If anybody ever tells you they want to argue with God, they're on medication. Don't listen to them.

Andre Norman 15:19

I said, Well, if I can't be a psychopath, which is what I was, what's the point of being in jail? There is none. It didn't make sense. If you're not going to drink, you shouldn't be in the bar. So I said, Well, what do I want to do? I said, I want to be free. First time in six and a half years of being incarcerated I thought that thought. I want to be free. So I looked around, I said, I'm thinking type of guy. I looked at the white guy. I looked at the black guy. Looked at the Spanish guys. Looked at the asian guys. Looked at the guys work in the kitchen, the guys went to church, the guys who walk the yard, the guys who played hand ball, the guys who played basketball, I looked at everybody. Everybody who went home, came back. Not one group went home and had success.

Andre Norman 15:59

So I said, free doesn't work. Free is a trick. So I said, I want to be free because everyone who is free comes back. So I said, I want to be successful. Because successful people don't come here. I said, if I go home to be successful, I never come to prison again. So I said, I'll go home be successful. I deduced successful people come from college. So I picked a school called Harvard University. And I came to my friends the next day, I told all my friends, I figured it out. I'm going home and going to Harvard, I'm going to be successful. And it looked to me like I was crazy. I said, I figured it out. Because I'm like really serious. I'm going home, I'm gonna go to Harvard and be successful.

Andre Norman 16:36

They said you can't do that Dre. I said Why? They said, you're black. You're a gang member. You can't read good, you're poor. They told me all the reasons I couldn't go. And what I was hearing were my friends in ninth grade who stole my trumpet, who told me playing trumpet was stupid, because I'm black. I'm poor. It'll do nothing for me. Let that go. So I didn't know the scripture at the time Satan Get behind me. I just said Man, y'all get out my way. A?nd I went to my cell, I looked in the mirror. I said, what's inside of me thats stopping this from happening?

Unknown Speaker 17:09

And I started fixing that list. I made a list, went to school, got my GED, went to the library taught myself the law. I went to anger management because I had a slight anger management problem. And I started working on that list. It took me eight years of working 20 hours a day to get to the bottom of that list. And they said, Okay, you can go home now. I reversed the case on the appeal. I had changed my attitude, changed my perception, changed my walk of life, changed my energy, and my spirit. And it was recognized and I was given the opportunity to be free.

Andre Norman 17:42

Eight years of working 20 hours a day I walked into the parking lot. I said I'm free. But that's not the goal. Freedom wasn't a goal, because freedom doesn't work. So I didn't get content with freedom. I said, I'm going for success. And I got out in November. And in January, I was in community college.

Tamara Anderson 18:00

Wow.

Andre Norman 18:00

Then next step, that June, they had a thing at my school. We can have matriculation agreement I heard about. We can take classes on other campuses. So I went to the guidance conference. I went to matriculation thing. And I said well, what's school. They gave me a book. Now look, there was three different universities UMass Boston. Wheelock College and a couple of others. And I said, I want to go to this one and this one and this one. I said, No, no, let's pick one. I said, why? That's how we do it. I said, What's the rule? We just generally pick one, and that's what you generally do. I said, What is the rule? Is there a rule that says I can't go to more than one school?

Andre Norman 18:37

We don't recommend it. I believe you. I'm not asking for recommendation at this moment, sir. I'm asking what the rule says. He says well the rule says you can go to multiple colleges. I said, well, thank you. I'm gonna go to this one, and this one and this one. He says I don't recommend it. I understand that and I receive your advice, but you're not my counsel. This is what I want to do. And now I'm taking classes on four campuses. Wow. No three campus UMass Boston, Wheelock College and Roxbury, Community. I'm taking classes on three separate campuses. The thing is, they never asked me what my motivation was. What's my purpose?

Andre Norman 19:15

He put me in a group of 10,000 souls who came before me. I wanted the experience. I wanted the exposure. I wanted to see different mindsets and rooms and spaces. I wasn't worried about the education. And I was driven to have those experiences, which meant I was going to show up, I wasn't going to get burned up. I'd spent 14 years in a cell. Going to three colleges is easy.

Tamara Anderson 19:38

Yeah.

Andre Norman 19:38

He didn't know me. He categorized me with the group or the masses. But I'm going to class on three campus. And I'm doing wonderful. I'm engaging and I'm learning. The text was easy. I'm seeing groups of people that I would have never interacted with. And I did that. Then I just then somebody came to me, a Christian volunteer from the prison. Pat Dempsey shout out to Pat Dempsey. He came to me and he says, Dre, I see you working hard. I'm going to do this for you.

Andre Norman 20:09

He took me to Boston College. And he walked me into the office. And there was a guy named Father Woods, who was a priest that worked at the school. And he introduced me the Father Woods. And Father Woods walked to his office, he grabbed a book and said, Here, pick what classes you like. I picked four classes. He said, You're in. You start Monday. Okay, I'm at Boston College, one of the top schools in the area. I'm in class on Monday.

Andre Norman 20:35

And I'm going to class and I'm getting great grades, and I'm going to class. Then one day, I needed something. So I went to Father Woods's office, and I said, um, I need such and such. They said, Hold on me pull your file. They went and they pulled my file. And she brought it back. She says, you don't have an application. I said, What's that? And she put my phone on the table, there was a yellow sticky note, from Pat to Father Woods. And it said, "Father Woods this is a remarkable man. He has all the gifts that you could ever ask for. He just needs a chance." That was my application for Boston College.

Tamara Anderson 21:16

Wow. Wow.

Andre Norman 21:21

A lifetime scholarship because somebody spoke up. That's $50,000 a year. And I saw that it just, to this day--the power God is real. If you're in the grace, and you're in the network, it works. And people want to help. People want to see you do better. It was predicated on me going those three schools giving my all, staying out of prison doing my all. And people see the good that you do, they want to amplify. So I didn't have to audition. I just had to be authentic.

Tamara Anderson 22:13

I love that, "I didn't have to audition. I just had to be authentic." So it really is about finding what motivates you. And just pushing to be successful in that. And don't listen to the voices of other people, you know, but find what motivates you from the heart. And then follow that.

Andre Norman 22:34

I can read a scripture and it'll mean something to me. Or I'll runn into a scholar, and he'll tell me means something else. Because he's exercised it, extra-Jesus it and he's broken it down. He's read 30 books on it. Listen, it's not that serious. The Bible can be read by any man or woman. And it speaks clearly the fact that you read and research every word syllable and Latin, I'm glad for you. The spirit is real. It's a living testimony. And you can get interpretations or guidance from people. Or you can just read the book yourself. If we have a manifestation of God then what do I need explained to me?

Andre Norman 22:36

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. So, finish the story for me. How did you how did college finish out for you?

Tamara Anderson 23:29

We're going to take a quick break. But when we get back, we'll have more lessons, tips and things you can apply to your life. Stay tuned.

Tamara Anderson 23:38

How many of you out there feel like your life is chaotic, crazy, and completely awful compared to the norm? What if I were to tell you you are normal for you? I'm so excited to tell you about my book Normal for Me, Learning to Love and Accept Life's Detours with God's help. This book took me 10 years to write. And I share 20 years worth of lessons learned in my life detours, including being in a car accident and having two of my children diagnosed on the autism spectrum. In this book, I share the secrets of how I made it from despair to peace with God's help. I talk about being a zombie mom, living in survival mode, learning true faith, and how I debunked the myth that God doesn't give you more than you can handle. Normal for Me also includes a bonus Diagnosis Survival Guide at the very end the book in which I share 12 tips to survive and thrive in tough times. So what are you waiting for? Grab your copy of Normal for Me today on Amazon or on my website TamaraKanderson.com.

Tamara Anderson 24:58

Finish the story for me. How did you how did college finish out for you?

Andre Norman 25:02

College was going extremely well. And then I had a mentor at the time, who his story was, was hanging around gang members getting in trouble. Somebody pulled him up, put him at Harvard. He was in school, he was doing well. He dropped out. And he started an outreach ministry in the church of which I had become a part of. So I'm on track to graduate from Boston College. And he saw this, he said, Andre, you're way too much, we need to here in the office more, you're not hearing. And He indirectly convinced me to drop out of college. What I didn't understand at the time was, he didn't want me to graduate because he didn't graduate.

Andre Norman 25:41

And I trusted him blindly. And whatever, he said, That's my guy. He's with me. He's saying, it's my pastor, my partner, we're rolling together with doing saving souls and helping people. So when he told me, what we were doing with him was more important to me going to college, I didn't question it. And I left college. And I went into the ministry full time, never understanding his motivation. Is he didn't want me to have the testimony that I graduated when he didn't, because it made him feel less than. So his insecurities derailed my college career, because I didn't ask the right questions. I had blind faith.

Andre Norman 26:20

You have blind faith in God, not in man. I had blind faith in a man. And he did what people do, their personalities and egos get in the way of my success. And so I dropped out of college, and I did the ministry full time. He made it sound like this thing I was supposed to be doing. And so I did it. And so I never graduated from college at that point. And I just kept going into ministry full time, and I came to realize that his motivation became clear. And his spirit became clear to me and I left.

Andre Norman 26:51

I started over, I said, I walked away-- $25 million company. I walked out the door. We did $25 million, my first four years, they kept telling me I was the golden goose. Andre is the golden goose. People love Andre. They write checks to Andre, the Foundation's love Andre. Companies like Andre. I'm the golden goose. And because of me being there, and my testimony and my walk, agencies, foundations, city governments who just write checks to him, because he had the golden goose. And I knew what my job was to be the golden goose. And it's not a bad job. I get a nice house, a nice car, I get to help people. I get to go to nice restaurants. This is great. I'm the golden goose. It's a great job.

Andre Norman 27:37

And somebody came and whispered in my ear, Dre You're not the golden goose. I said, Yes, I am. Oh, this is a great job. Why are you hating on my job? He said, Dre you're not the golden goose. I said, Yes, I look $25 million dollars. Look, we have an office in the White House. Look, were accepted at universities across the world. Look, we have people from around the world coming to us, because I'm the golden goose. It works. I have no complaints.

Andre Norman 28:00

He said Andre, I said what? He said you're a golden eagle. So you don't have to sit there and let somebody else benefit off of you. You're allowed to fly and spread your wings. And he explained to me what being a golden eagle was versus a golden goose. And from that day to this I've been to over 30 countries. I've sat with ministers and presidents. I sat with some of the biggest thought leaders on the planet. Because I stopped being his golden goose sit in the pen. I started a flying. I said, he said they convinced me that I was a goose when I was really eagle. And I've been soaring ever since.

Tamara Anderson 28:47

I love that comparison. And so I guess the lesson to take from that is get your guidance from God. Don't trust blindly in man. Right? But but also God sees us as eagles flying and don't settle for anything less. Oh

Andre Norman 29:05

It was a great job. I'm not going to lie. The golden goose was a great job. And because it was a great job, I didn't think there was better. Fresh out of prison stepped out of prison in the first four years $25 million dollars. I'm at the White House. I mean like I mean this, it doesn't get much better than this I thought. How could it be much better than this? It can always be greater if you let go and let God. I can tell you.

Andre Norman 29:07

The point is all in the past. That's small stuff. When I first first came home from prison I was in a program. And again you get around people with limited beliefs. They try to put you in that box. And the guy insists I get a job. So I found a job that was gonna pay $65,000 A year and the program director only made 50. And because I was young and in my way, I'm gonna buy Mercedes Benz and get some jewelry. I'm going to do this I'm gonna fly around. And it made the director feel uneasy because I'd be making more than him. And money is a lever. He said you can't have that job Andre. I said, Why? He says it pays too much. And you haven't been faithful over a little. So you shouldn't be given a lot. I was like, Man, this is a legit job, I'm gonna sell insurance. I'll make money. I can spend my money on what I want. No, no Dre and he kept blocking the job.

Andre Norman 30:29

So they called the pastor down from the church, the deacon, whatever we set in the room, and it was four of them and me. And they kept saying I couldn't take this job. I'm in the church program. I said, What is your reason? He said, You haven't been faithful over a little. So you shouldn't be given charge of alot. I said, is that what you're standing on? He said, Yes. Pastor, Is that what you're standing on? Yes. Deacon? Is that what you're standing on? They all said, Yes, we're standing on this scripture. And to the Bible That's true. What God said is true. Faithful little Be faithful a lot. You haven't been faithful a little. So you shouldn't be given that $65,000 job.

Andre Norman 31:08

So I got one question. They said, What is it? I said, What if 65,000 is A little bit for me? He's, he's screamed No so fast. Right? No!!! We talked about this morning. He said no! And I can tell you this. I was on a call yesterday. There is an association that I'm working with. They govern $21 trillion dollars. They give away $23 billion a year. And they just brought me on to help them manage and facilitate the giving of $23 million dollars. So I wish I could get that guy back on the phone and say by away, right?

Tamara Anderson 31:56

It was a little for me.

Andre Norman 31:58

It was a real real little for me. So it's not even about the money. It's just that he tried to put me in a situation that he was--I'm sorry that he has trauma bonds. But don't give me your trauma. So I run into people who have been hurt, unhealed, rage, beat robbed, and they try to make me live in that space. So no! I literally just said, What if 65,000 is a little bit? I'm literally just started a job where I'll be co-managing or facilitating $23 billion dollars.

Tamara Anderson 32:39

amazing,

Andre Norman 32:40

You can't let people use scripture. Because all four of them said this quoting the Bible to me. The Bible says and they use it from one perspective to fit the fit to their purpose. The Bible is real. It is honest, is accurate. And it's a living document. It is made for your greatness. But people tend to exploit it to leverage it to their point of view. Don't let a man shrink down the Word of God.

Tamara Anderson 33:12

Yeah. I love that. I love that you look at it as God is a God of abundance. And He isn't the one that places limits on us. It's ourselves, right? And so we need to learn to break those shackles off of us and say, I want to get rid of this. And God can help us get rid of it. You're you're living proof of that--that we can break free and and leave those things behind and live in abundance. But you got to break through those limitations.

Andre Norman 33:46

It's not even like the money is not even thing for me. It's that I get to be in the room. And if I listened to small minded people, I'd live in small rooms all my life. It's not my money, but I get to be in the room. And I actually get to have a contributing voice. And people's limits shouldn't have to be yours. That's what I tell people. What he said was accurate but the way he said it was manipulative. Don't try to prove points with the Bible. Just try to share wisdom.

Tamara Anderson 34:27

Yeah. Well and then allow people to make their decisions. Right? Yeah, no, I think you I think you've hit on it right there, share. But then allow that agency and obviously you chose that. I'm not going to listen to that because 65,000 is little for me.

Andre Norman 34:46

They stopped the job, but I maintained the mindset.

Tamara Anderson 34:49

There. There you go. "I stopped the job but I maintain the mindset." I love that man! You are just full of awesome one line quotes. I'm gonna have to make a whole section in my show notes. Just have Andres one liners. I sure will, I sure Well, oh my goodness. Well, you have given us so much here of breaking free, letting listening to God not listening to the world. I love, love, love this. Has there become, has there been a Bible verse or section that has spoken to you? That's become super meaningful to you in your journey?

Andre Norman 35:28

Well, yes. When I first got saved June 12, 1999, and seven o'clock Father Father Martin, who St. Basil was in the closet at the prison, During the retreat called conceal. There is a personal retreat. And the Catholic church comes into jail, and they do this big retreat. And a guy recommended that I go, so I went, long story short, Greatest weekend in my life, I got saved. And then after I got saved, I'm moving around. I already been going to Jewish services, not to be Jewish, but it was a great rabbi who taught great stuff. He was a teacher to me, not a religious figure. And the Ton is like my favorite mentor to this day. So when I got saved, and I was like, Okay, I'm in the church, then I was actually going to Catholic services at the time. Because I was I was a Catholic growing up. Then I went to the Protestant services, because that's what black people go. I went to the Services and they were jumping around jumping, I couldn't keep up with Galatians six, Matthew five. Well, I couldn't keep up. So I went back to, I went back to mass. And the thing about mass is, it's the same every week. You don't have to ask questions. They just have to show up and listen. And after why you catch on to the homily, the lessons, and even the songs are the same. So I was able to I couldn't stand. I couldn't you fit in.

Andre Norman 36:45

So I went and I learned every week. And I got a story. I got a lesson. I gotta God. I got a story. I got a lesson, I got a God. And I was able to absorb the Bible, and lessons in mass better than for me, than being in a church is moving 100 miles an hour. And I'm going, I'm going, I'm going. Then I said okay. They hand me a Bible. This is a Bible that I had the weekend I got saved. This is not just any old Bible. And the retreat that we did. This is the book. This is my book. And so.

Andre Norman 37:23

And that's the other thing during the weekend when they gave me my Bible, It was tje first time I ever had a Bible. And it was a great weekend. I'm like on fire. So I'm running around telling people to sign my Bible. And I say sign my Bible. So I have all kinds of-- these four guys and sat at the table with me for that weekend. And my entire Bible is people writing on it. I'm saying. And they told me Dre you can't have people sign your Bible. This is mine. Why not? It's not what we do here. I like, well this is what I do. I want to remember these people. Nah, Dre, you can't do that. I'm Iike get out of here.

Andre Norman 38:05

I have tons and tons--everybody. Every last person who was on my weekend, when I got saved is in here. Because they're part of my transformation. I never wanted to forget. And then I hope I'm a Christian. Cool.

Andre Norman 38:22

So you go I said Psalm 23. Yea I walk through the valley of the valley of the shadow of death I should fear no evil. It was a Psalm I had heard 1000 times over, because I've been to too many funerals too count. So I'm thinking that this is going to be my favorite Psalm because it's the only one I've ever heard. So this is my thinking, the new believer. I'm going to start at Psalm 1, read all the way through to Psalm end and then I get the context of 23 and it'll make even more sense. Nobody told me that it didn't lineup. I started at 1 went through back to 30 and I realized that it don't line up.

Andre Norman 38:58

And then 23 wasn't my favorite Psalm. I realized Psalm 3 was my favorite Psalm. Psalm three spoke to me way more than Psalms 23. So I'm going to share with you Psalms three which is my favorite Bible verse of all time. The Psalm of David when he played his son, "Lord, how many are my foes? How many rise up against me? Many are saying of him, God will not deliver him. But you are sure around me. My glory, my one who lifts my head high. I call out to my Lord and He answers me from his holy mountain. I lie down in sleep. I wake again because the Lord sustains me. I will not fear the tens of thousands who assail me on every side. Arise, Lord, deliver me my God. Strike my enemies on a jaw. Break the teeth of the wicked. From the Lord comes deliverance. May your blessings be on your people."

Andre Norman 39:49

So they were saying that I would never make it. They were saying that I should just fall away and die. You're saying and every time I woke up I never understood Why. God woke. And then for me, God punched my enemies in the mouth. That's tough. I used to punch people in the mouth. I really used to punch people in the mouth and break their teeth. So God's gonna do it for me. I'm like, That's my God. Um, there's a scripture says turn the other cheek. That's not the one that got me. God said, Get out the way I punched him in the mouth for you and break their teeth. I'm like, yeah. That works.

Andre Norman 40:26

So I mean, I couldn't serve the passive God. And passive scriptures don't really fall as deep in me as these. And that's, that's, that's my one. And then my Rabbi when I told him, He didn't get mad when I became a Christian. He was still my guy. His wife actually got this for me. It's a Hebrew Psalm book. And he got it for me because Psalms three, I thought it was my favorite. And she brought it to me Hebrew Psalm book. So these are the two books that I keep next to my bed. And since 1999, for 22 years, I've been home, these two books sit next to my bed. And initially, they were written in my will to go in my grave. They were going with me. And now they've been passed on to my son, I stopped being selfish. So instead of going to my grave with me, they're gonna go to my son as family. These are my family heirlooms. These are these are things that got me started. So before there was people telling me a little or a lot, or Yes, over No, these are the things that I had. These are my shields. These are my guideposts and you will never find a house that I live in that these won't be two feet from my bed.

Tamara Anderson 41:45

I love that. And that just shows the power of the Word of God. You know that when you find it and it sinks into your soul it just resonates and empowers you to be successful. Right?

Andre Norman 42:00

And success is defined by you. Not by the Joneses.

Tamara Anderson 42:04

Yes, I love that Amen. Amen. Oh, my goodness. So why don't you share with us? You have your Bibles that are your amazing resources. What other resources can you share with us? And please don't be bashful to talk about your book.

Andre Norman 42:21

Well, my personal book, The Academy, The Ambassador of Hope, is my life story. There was a guy named Joe Polish, John Ruhlin, and Kevin Hill. And they wanted my story to be told. They said you have to get you. And so they went to Tucker Max the scribe and they said you have to do Andre's story. Now, I'd try to work with Ghost Writers and writers before but it never worked out. The scribe method was flawless. It was simple. It was true. They wrote, they helped me with my book. When I read the final draft, I cried. It was my story.

Andre Norman 42:56

And my story is just that I can go from the basement of prison to the White House. I can go from being gang leader to a lecturer at Harvard University. I can go from selling drugs on the yard to actually negotiating deals at London Business School. I can go from thinking 65,000 is a lot, of managing 23 billion. That there is nothing that can't be done if God is with you. And if you put limits on yourself, then you put limits on yourself.

Andre Norman 43:25

I just wake up in the morning. So what can I do to be helpful? Which way do you want me to go? And I go. And the message is the trumpet sits behind me as a reminder of never give up your dreams. I don't play anymore. But it's it's right next to these two. Everyday I'm sitting in my office, my monitor. I'm on a zoom, I'm the business deal and helping somebody it is don't give up your dreams.

Tamara Anderson 43:53

Yeah. Well, and you have achieved them. And I don't think you're at the peak yet. Because God is still using you for good,

Andre Norman 44:02

I'm still here.

Tamara Anderson 44:02

He will He will use your your entire life. And I think it's amazing that the amazing transformation that you have that you have gone through with God's help.

Andre Norman 44:18

He speaks to you. When I was a little kid. My mother used to walk around the house singing gospel songs. My mom's a big believer. And she sings. So to this day every Sunday, I play nothing but Gospel in my house as tribute to my mom. She's still with us. But that's my mom. I play Sunday gospel for mom. I put it on and let it play all day. And when I was a kid, I just go to church with her to Bible school, to choir rehearsal. And my favorite song became Amazing Grace.

Tamara Anderson 44:47

Oh, yes.

Andre Norman 44:47

And I said to the choir director, I said let's not make a deal which, if you sing Amazing Grace, I'll come in every week. And he was singing. I would sit through Bible school, choir rehearsal all day as long as I got my song. In one week, they forgot to play my soul. And I stopped going. When I first got locked up, I'm going to county jail. I got in a fight, and I ended up in subjugation. And I got I got like a napkin, and a pen. And I wrote out the words to Amazing Grace. I knew all the words. Only song to this day I know all the words, to. And I can tell you honestly, the entire time I was locked up, I would sing that song. No matter how bad I was, how much trouble I got into or what I was in the middle of that was a mainstay, I knew I would sing the song. I would always sing that song. And it carried me through 14 years of prison. It carried me through my valley of death. It carried me through all my misgivings. And I should have went off a cliff. That song. That's muscle.

Tamara Anderson 45:55

No, I love that. Well, Andre, for sure there are going to be people who want to reach out to you and find you on social media, on your website, will you please share how we can contact you?

Andre Norman 46:05

They can always call you.

Tamara Anderson 46:08

That's true.

Andre Norman 46:09

My website is simple is AndreNorman.com. Instagram is simple it's @AndreNorman. My Facebook is simple its Andre Norman. My LinkedIn is Andre Norman. And my if you go to if you want to send me an email, you go to the website, it'll say admin@AndreNorman, and my assistant will get it. But I'm, I'm not hard to find awesome. I've got a simple policy-- you call me, I'll pick up.

Tamara Anderson 46:37

That is wonderful. Well, Andre, this has been such an honor to have you on today to help us realize that no matter where we are, or where we've been, God can help us reach a potential far beyond our wildest dreams.

Tamara Anderson 46:56

Right?

Andre Norman 46:57

Exactly. I always tell people If you're confused about the power of God, go outside and look at a tree. And ask yourself, so what created that tree? Ask yourself, what created the lake? Ask yourself what created these birds? When I look at the system that we call our body? How it all works together from from reproduction, to groth, to vision to sight to hearing to-- everything works? What Big Bang didn't create that? What created this flawless system that works? What created clouds? Man can't create clouds. He can make a little copy of them. Something created this whole ecosystem. And that's something is called God. And if you study nature, you're studying God.

Andre Norman 47:51

So, I don't try to get caught up in everything I don't know. I know that tree outside my window was created by God. And it drops to the ground and things we need to eat. It breathes out the air that I need to breathe in. That's not an accident. The trees which surround the Earth breathe out the thing we need to breathe in. That's intention. So get close to God, which is get close to nature and just study. Just be one with nature. Just go lay in the grass. It's the best feeling ever. Some people in Minnesota like to lay in the snow. Works too. I prefer the grass or the sand, but there's those in Minnesota who want to lay in the snow--or Canada.

Andre Norman 48:34

So close to nature is close to God and study God. The Word of God is great. Study God. And it'll lead. The world works. It has been working for millions and billions of years. So there's something to that.

Tamara Anderson 48:53

Amen, amen.

Tamara Anderson 48:55

Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's show. If you like what you heard, subscribe so you can get your weekly dose of powerful stories of hope. I know there are many of you out there who are going through a hard time, and I hope you found useful things that you can apply to your own life in today's podcast. If you'd like to access the show notes of today's show, please visit my website stories of hope podcast.com. There you will find a summary of today's show, the transcript and one of my favorite takeaways. You know, if someone kept coming to mind during today's episode, perhaps that means that you should share this episode with them. Maybe there was a story shared or quote or a scripture verse that they really really need to hear. So go ahead and share this podcast. May God bless you, especially if you are struggling with hope to carry on and the strength to keep going when things get tough. Remember to walk with Christ and He will help you bear the burden. And above all else, Remember God loves you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Tamara AndersonSelf-Improvement, addiction, faith